I am thinking of buliding stereo (later active) 2 way system for my friend, using Sympatico amplifier modules. It will be feed through balanced connections with DAC/preamp or miniDSP. Since I have not get yet any listening experiences using LM4780 in such configuration, I am asking Sympatico builders about their opinions about this project, which loudspeakers are you using and how far should I put sound performance expectation?
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
So i guess i can answer my own question now. 
I built Sympaticos recently and am happy to report excelent results. They are surprisingly powerfull, detailed, transparent and yet very easy to listen to. A lot of this has to do with direct connection with Buffalo IIIse probably, but still...
A few comments about them on this forum suggest they may sound sterile/clinical but they are not. They are quite smooth and musical while most importantly - they "lack" that fatiguing sharpness/ compression found in the highs of many other amps while extracting amazing "real" details. This will obviosly depends on how you build them and wires, but i doubt results will vary by much... Also I use them with fairly easy load (95db, 6-8oh), but will try with some other speakers soon.
Tonal balance wise - Sympaticos have more bass/less highs than say my Creek Destiny amp. In my current configuration - they sound darker which i like, with none of that HF "glare". To my ears - tonal balance is next to perfect.
The only "tunning" option i have tried yet is Nichicon KZ 1000uF caps in place of Panasonic 470uF at one amp while leaving stock panasonics at other. The sound is different tonal balance wise at least, and strangely - panasonics produce more bass...While nichicons favor highs but have kind of boomier midbass which is strange. At first i thought it's my understuffed (yet) TQWTs but the other speaker is the same so i guess one should be carefull when picking anything other than stock caps for these positions...
I built Sympaticos recently and am happy to report excelent results. They are surprisingly powerfull, detailed, transparent and yet very easy to listen to. A lot of this has to do with direct connection with Buffalo IIIse probably, but still...A few comments about them on this forum suggest they may sound sterile/clinical but they are not. They are quite smooth and musical while most importantly - they "lack" that fatiguing sharpness/ compression found in the highs of many other amps while extracting amazing "real" details. This will obviosly depends on how you build them and wires, but i doubt results will vary by much... Also I use them with fairly easy load (95db, 6-8oh), but will try with some other speakers soon.
Tonal balance wise - Sympaticos have more bass/less highs than say my Creek Destiny amp. In my current configuration - they sound darker which i like, with none of that HF "glare". To my ears - tonal balance is next to perfect.
The only "tunning" option i have tried yet is Nichicon KZ 1000uF caps in place of Panasonic 470uF at one amp while leaving stock panasonics at other. The sound is different tonal balance wise at least, and strangely - panasonics produce more bass...While nichicons favor highs but have kind of boomier midbass which is strange. At first i thought it's my understuffed (yet) TQWTs but the other speaker is the same so i guess one should be carefull when picking anything other than stock caps for these positions...
Last edited:
One more observation about capacitors on Sympatico:
I already mentioned that once i installed Nichicon KZ 1000uF caps to one of the amps it became very boomy at certain frequencies (like resonances from poorly stuffed transmission line or poor closed box). But then it fixed itself after hours of playing music.
Then i installed Nichicons to another amp instead of panasonics and...there it was again! And again it fixed itself in a few hours... That was strange. Is it a burn-in, or a hint that Sympatico wants low impedance caps back? Otherwise they sound nice at the moment, but clearly different from panasonics...more highs, tighter/less lows...This cap position sure affect sound a lot.
I was hoping to ask though - is balanced Joshua Tree going to make a lot of difference compared to Sabre internal volume control?
Also, could you please tell if 470uF is some kind of magical value that works best in C7-C8 positions, or it is more of a "good enough" and trying 1000uF FM there is good idea too?
I already mentioned that once i installed Nichicon KZ 1000uF caps to one of the amps it became very boomy at certain frequencies (like resonances from poorly stuffed transmission line or poor closed box)
. But then it fixed itself after hours of playing music.Then i installed Nichicons to another amp instead of panasonics and...there it was again! And again it fixed itself in a few hours... That was strange. Is it a burn-in, or a hint that Sympatico wants low impedance caps back? Otherwise they sound nice at the moment, but clearly different from panasonics...more highs, tighter/less lows...This cap position sure affect sound a lot.
Thanks for making it, it sure sounds great!I am glad to see others enjoying the B3(and B3SE) -> Sympatico combo. It is after all exactly the kind of audio chain I was striving to achieve.
I was hoping to ask though - is balanced Joshua Tree going to make a lot of difference compared to Sabre internal volume control?
Also, could you please tell if 470uF is some kind of magical value that works best in C7-C8 positions, or it is more of a "good enough" and trying 1000uF FM there is good idea too?
My only suggestion regarding the caps is we picked the ones we liked the best and put them in the kit. Other than that really the value is not super critical - but low ESR *and* ESL definitely makes a difference for the better.
As for volume control, it's a very subjective question. Some people like the analog control better - some like the more direct approach. I actually use both and can't say I have a strong preference - but the cascade of joshua tree relay clicks on volume change are kinda cool.
Other than that really the value is not super critical - but low ESR *and* ESL definitely makes a difference for the better.As for volume control, it's a very subjective question. Some people like the analog control better - some like the more direct approach. I actually use both and can't say I have a strong preference - but the cascade of joshua tree relay clicks on volume change are kinda cool.
Nichicons KZ and FG need quite some time for burn in or with other words, time to stabilize diaelectric. Actually KZ is total opposite of FM. Try FC for most neutral sound and Nichicon FGs for a bit more smooth sound.
Did you test amp with less sensitivity speakers yet?
Russ: Any plans for higher power Sympatico in 2015?
I guess i wasn't patient enough and installed stock Panasonic FMs after a few days.
With Panasonic FMs there was instantly less highs, more bass, no hint of "sweet/sunny" sound, although KZ are more civilized here than say Silmic II. If only KZ had more bass/less pronounced highs they'd sound very good - clean and extremely detailed yet smooth...Maybe they get that with break-in?
During next 2 days i hope to test it with Seas and accuton based speakers which should be much heavier a load than my 95db/6-8ohm DTQWTs
Today i tested Sympaticos with these speakers:
LINK
5-6ohm impedance, about 87-88 sensitivity, the 8" Eton bass had to work a lot in bass heavy songs at high volume level. These speakers are much quiter than my 95db/6-8ohm DTQWTs and a few times we listened at 100% volume of Buffalo IIIse digital volume knob (real loud though)
Impressions: It's the first time i ever heard such a fast bass with powerfull, short slam, total controll and least booming bass in the room with these speakers. Everything is both - extremely detailed, transparent yet smooth. It's the first time we could listen to something like Nickelback with all the guitars screaming without wanting to turn the volume down. No fatigue but with all the details you can ever hear.
In short - Sympatico is amazing for what it is and i never thoughts it will have talents in bass and not just smooth and detailed highs and overall transparency...
Almost forgot, Russ, Brian can you tell me please - is ground connection really needed between Legato and Sympatico gounds or i can simply ignore it?
LINK
5-6ohm impedance, about 87-88 sensitivity, the 8" Eton bass had to work a lot in bass heavy songs at high volume level. These speakers are much quiter than my 95db/6-8ohm DTQWTs and a few times we listened at 100% volume of Buffalo IIIse digital volume knob (real loud though)
Impressions: It's the first time i ever heard such a fast bass with powerfull, short slam, total controll and least booming bass in the room with these speakers. Everything is both - extremely detailed, transparent yet smooth. It's the first time we could listen to something like Nickelback with all the guitars screaming without wanting to turn the volume down. No fatigue but with all the details you can ever hear.
In short - Sympatico is amazing for what it is and i never thoughts it will have talents in bass and not just smooth and detailed highs and overall transparency...
Almost forgot, Russ, Brian can you tell me please - is ground connection really needed between Legato and Sympatico gounds or i can simply ignore it?
Is a manual or integration guide in the works for Sympatico?
I have build half dozen of your kits and I rely on those when building your products. It is helpful to be able to read that before I decide to buy so I know if I can handle the project before I buy the kit. I think that one of the reasons for the success of your brand is the comprehensive assembly instructions that show non-technical people that "you can do it." This is probably one of your easier kits to build, but without seeing the instructions people may be intimidated to try to build their first power amp.
What secondary voltage is recommended for Sympatico? What size power transformer (VA) for a single channel for a bass driver? What VA for 3 Sympaticos in one chassis to power a 3way speaker? What size heatsinks (C/W) is recommended for a single Sympatico, stereo pair and 3 way?
Thanks!
Rich
I have build half dozen of your kits and I rely on those when building your products. It is helpful to be able to read that before I decide to buy so I know if I can handle the project before I buy the kit. I think that one of the reasons for the success of your brand is the comprehensive assembly instructions that show non-technical people that "you can do it." This is probably one of your easier kits to build, but without seeing the instructions people may be intimidated to try to build their first power amp.
What secondary voltage is recommended for Sympatico? What size power transformer (VA) for a single channel for a bass driver? What VA for 3 Sympaticos in one chassis to power a 3way speaker? What size heatsinks (C/W) is recommended for a single Sympatico, stereo pair and 3 way?
Thanks!
Rich
Last edited:
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.