Steve, if you look at my original post you can see I am also concerned about safety.
I have seen a power amp produce smoke but never a pre amp.
Does anyone have any thoughts on what fault conditions might cause a fire and ways of minimising this happening.
I am also thinking that in my home (excluding audio) I have a tv, microwave, dvd, vcr and electric toothbrush that are on all the time.
SP
I have seen a power amp produce smoke but never a pre amp.
Does anyone have any thoughts on what fault conditions might cause a fire and ways of minimising this happening.
I am also thinking that in my home (excluding audio) I have a tv, microwave, dvd, vcr and electric toothbrush that are on all the time.
SP
Leaving my pre amp on
Hi All
Did I just understand this thread right, if the document listed is read it does mention directly heated thoriated tungsten filaments.
That in that case there are advantages to leaving them switched on, I for one would agree in this instance but if it were in the case of indirectly heated tube such as ECC83 or even KT66 then I still feel that there is no advantage in leaving them on which is bore out by the document in a previous reply.
Transmitters however are very different beasts to audio amplifiers, although they will have a audio amplifier stage in them at some point, which is why so many transmitter tube have been used for single ended amplifiers. So perhaps in those instances the output tubes might benefit from being left on heater wise.
But for me the one of the other reasons is that the whole issue of leaving the heaters on half power or 80% power or whatever is that it does complicate issues with the wiring of such things and the whole idea of single ended is that it is simplistic in its approach, so perhaps I feel we are getting away from what it is all about by making things more complicated than they need to be and just getting on with the listening side, otherwise one is bound to spend a lifetime of tweaking and forgetting what the original objective was and that was to listen to music, not to spend the time constantly fiddling with it.
It is only my opinion, ergo it is no more wrong than yours.
have a nice day all
steve in the UK
Hi All
Did I just understand this thread right, if the document listed is read it does mention directly heated thoriated tungsten filaments.
That in that case there are advantages to leaving them switched on, I for one would agree in this instance but if it were in the case of indirectly heated tube such as ECC83 or even KT66 then I still feel that there is no advantage in leaving them on which is bore out by the document in a previous reply.
Transmitters however are very different beasts to audio amplifiers, although they will have a audio amplifier stage in them at some point, which is why so many transmitter tube have been used for single ended amplifiers. So perhaps in those instances the output tubes might benefit from being left on heater wise.
But for me the one of the other reasons is that the whole issue of leaving the heaters on half power or 80% power or whatever is that it does complicate issues with the wiring of such things and the whole idea of single ended is that it is simplistic in its approach, so perhaps I feel we are getting away from what it is all about by making things more complicated than they need to be and just getting on with the listening side, otherwise one is bound to spend a lifetime of tweaking and forgetting what the original objective was and that was to listen to music, not to spend the time constantly fiddling with it.
It is only my opinion, ergo it is no more wrong than yours.
have a nice day all
steve in the UK
Tubes with thoriated tunsten filaments, direct heated ones are where this applies. And its pretty much directly applicable, inrush is smaller, but the filament is proportionately more delicate. Inrush causes damage in proportion to the cube of the inrush current. The filament should not be idled at below 80% as it can act as a getter in this range.
A few somewhat commonly used direct heated audio tubes are the 26, 27, 45, 2A3, and 300B.
Oxide cathodes have different issues, some are vulnerable to being poisoned.
A few somewhat commonly used direct heated audio tubes are the 26, 27, 45, 2A3, and 300B.
Oxide cathodes have different issues, some are vulnerable to being poisoned.
Leaving my pre amp on
Hi Stool Pidgeon
Am I being over cautious in that respect but I honestly can not see any advantage in leaving equipment switched on no matter what it is.
It is to me just a waste of energy and time but one that I am not going to fall out with anyone over, I hope.
We are all here after all to learn, to pass on our knowledge and to pass on our experiences.
Any equipment no matter what it is...is a hazard when left unattended.....you invalidate your household insurance too by leaving it on and leaving it unattended.
For me the benefits do not outweigh the disadvantages, so it is not a course that I would take anymore. I for one switch everything off except the cable box, the dvd and the timer on the hot water, the refridgerator and that is it......everything off. I for one am not willing to pay for the wasted energy, in the current climate something we should all be taking to our hearts.
It is my choice and we all have those.
have a nice day
steve in the UK
Hi Stool Pidgeon
Am I being over cautious in that respect but I honestly can not see any advantage in leaving equipment switched on no matter what it is.
It is to me just a waste of energy and time but one that I am not going to fall out with anyone over, I hope.
We are all here after all to learn, to pass on our knowledge and to pass on our experiences.
Any equipment no matter what it is...is a hazard when left unattended.....you invalidate your household insurance too by leaving it on and leaving it unattended.
For me the benefits do not outweigh the disadvantages, so it is not a course that I would take anymore. I for one switch everything off except the cable box, the dvd and the timer on the hot water, the refridgerator and that is it......everything off. I for one am not willing to pay for the wasted energy, in the current climate something we should all be taking to our hearts.
It is my choice and we all have those.
have a nice day
steve in the UK
Leaving my tube pre amp on
Hi Tweeker
Thanks for that on directly heated tubes others would our old favourites such as 211/845, 805, 811, 813 etc etc.
Examples of indirectly are ECC88, ECC83, EL84, EL34 etc.
I thought there were issues with poisoning of cathodes or heaters somewhere, is that similar to the heater in thoriated tubes acting like a getter, in that they attract any bad particles left over in the vacuum.
I read that bit about running them at 80% or even 95% of full heater power and the tubes filament acting as getters but did not read it in full, what is the result of the heater acting as a getter by running it at less than 80% of full power on the filament?
Thanks
have a nice day
steve in the UK
Hi Tweeker
Thanks for that on directly heated tubes others would our old favourites such as 211/845, 805, 811, 813 etc etc.
Examples of indirectly are ECC88, ECC83, EL84, EL34 etc.
I thought there were issues with poisoning of cathodes or heaters somewhere, is that similar to the heater in thoriated tubes acting like a getter, in that they attract any bad particles left over in the vacuum.
I read that bit about running them at 80% or even 95% of full heater power and the tubes filament acting as getters but did not read it in full, what is the result of the heater acting as a getter by running it at less than 80% of full power on the filament?
Thanks
have a nice day
steve in the UK
Steve, you reminded me, I forgot the fridge and washing machine. When you think about it there is a lot of power wasted just in having all this stuff idling (need the fridge on though).
But I am interested in everyone's opinion. To me a forum should be like sitting around having a few beers, smokes, whatever, talking to friends about something more interesting than Britney Spears or who Prince William is screwing. Just as with your friends no one will agree but maybe you will learn something!
Who wants to be in a conversation where everyone agrees on everything?
SP
But I am interested in everyone's opinion. To me a forum should be like sitting around having a few beers, smokes, whatever, talking to friends about something more interesting than Britney Spears or who Prince William is screwing. Just as with your friends no one will agree but maybe you will learn something!
Who wants to be in a conversation where everyone agrees on everything?
SP
leaving my tube pre amp on
Hi Tweeker
I must take a trip to Manchester central library, they had the first Morgan Jones book there pretty sure it was reference only but will check it out and the latest book as well, I found it was a good and very informative read....The Mullard Circuits for Audio Amplifiers of it's day, it makes reference to many classic push pull designs, such as the mullard circuits, the williamson (I have 3 of those that need rebuilding, all with Woden WOT25 Encapsulated output transformers, they are huge, I sold the Partridge transformer to some guy in Japan on Ebay a few months back).
A very good design I might add but I stopped using it because it became unstable and never got around to putting it right.
I think I might throw this into the mix as well, most professional equipment in recording studios was left on all day and all night, purely because it was better for the sound and the life of the equipment, research was done in the 1950s it's mentioned in wireless world.
But there is a whole world of difference between professional equipment and domestic, in the cost/build department alone. It is or was designed to be left on and this is one of the key issues here, I am not using professional equipment, I am however using very good equipment IMHO but it is just that only my opinion.
I have only recently joined this forum and so far I am on the learning curve, it is great fun talking with and exchanging views with like minded others.
Have a nice day
steve in the UK
Hi Tweeker
I must take a trip to Manchester central library, they had the first Morgan Jones book there pretty sure it was reference only but will check it out and the latest book as well, I found it was a good and very informative read....The Mullard Circuits for Audio Amplifiers of it's day, it makes reference to many classic push pull designs, such as the mullard circuits, the williamson (I have 3 of those that need rebuilding, all with Woden WOT25 Encapsulated output transformers, they are huge, I sold the Partridge transformer to some guy in Japan on Ebay a few months back).
A very good design I might add but I stopped using it because it became unstable and never got around to putting it right.
I think I might throw this into the mix as well, most professional equipment in recording studios was left on all day and all night, purely because it was better for the sound and the life of the equipment, research was done in the 1950s it's mentioned in wireless world.
But there is a whole world of difference between professional equipment and domestic, in the cost/build department alone. It is or was designed to be left on and this is one of the key issues here, I am not using professional equipment, I am however using very good equipment IMHO but it is just that only my opinion.
I have only recently joined this forum and so far I am on the learning curve, it is great fun talking with and exchanging views with like minded others.
Have a nice day
steve in the UK
Leaving my tube pre amp on
Hi Stool Pidgeon
I wholeheartedly concur, I am member of a lot of Yahoo groups around this subject too and all to often, I have seen a lot of disrespect and running rough shod over people.
As I stated in my last post I am here to learn and hope in doing so I can learn from others, just as they can learn from me.
Perhaps I am playing the devil's advocate a bit, in my current stance, I am however in a conflicting situation, one many of us should be in.
Given that I am student I neglected to add what I was studying but perhaps I now should come clean the clues are there, just take a look through the keyhole....oh dear I digress, must have been the mention of that classic screecher Britney or was that Whitney....no offence meant, choices again.
Well I am currently in my foundation year at University, it is number 5 in The Times list for Environmental Studies in the UK, stats list is Numero Uno for Biology in the UK, yep I am studying at Salford, Manchester's poor cousin, they are not rated, pretty sure they do not do the same course but who cares, I am with the best did I mention it's a 10 minute walk around the corner.
So now you see with me going on next year to study Wildlife and practical conservation, why I am so vocal about wasting power and energy but should it be an issue just because this is my choice of career or course, no we should be doing it as a matter of fact, we are extremely wasteful and this is the one and only time I will go OT I hope.
But is it off topic I am not sure that it is as the issue of wasted energy or power is directly related to leaving equipment on, should that be restricted to just audio probably but to get a point across I do not consider it off topic to mention other electrical equipment.
All of which is my opinion which is what we are all here for to express our opinions and to discuss things in a rational way without us all falling out.
Have a nice day all, I really must get on!!!
Steve in the UK
Hi Stool Pidgeon
I wholeheartedly concur, I am member of a lot of Yahoo groups around this subject too and all to often, I have seen a lot of disrespect and running rough shod over people.
As I stated in my last post I am here to learn and hope in doing so I can learn from others, just as they can learn from me.
Perhaps I am playing the devil's advocate a bit, in my current stance, I am however in a conflicting situation, one many of us should be in.
Given that I am student I neglected to add what I was studying but perhaps I now should come clean the clues are there, just take a look through the keyhole....oh dear I digress, must have been the mention of that classic screecher Britney or was that Whitney....no offence meant, choices again.
Well I am currently in my foundation year at University, it is number 5 in The Times list for Environmental Studies in the UK, stats list is Numero Uno for Biology in the UK, yep I am studying at Salford, Manchester's poor cousin, they are not rated, pretty sure they do not do the same course but who cares, I am with the best did I mention it's a 10 minute walk around the corner.
So now you see with me going on next year to study Wildlife and practical conservation, why I am so vocal about wasting power and energy but should it be an issue just because this is my choice of career or course, no we should be doing it as a matter of fact, we are extremely wasteful and this is the one and only time I will go OT I hope.
But is it off topic I am not sure that it is as the issue of wasted energy or power is directly related to leaving equipment on, should that be restricted to just audio probably but to get a point across I do not consider it off topic to mention other electrical equipment.
All of which is my opinion which is what we are all here for to express our opinions and to discuss things in a rational way without us all falling out.
Have a nice day all, I really must get on!!!
Steve in the UK
Stevie,
Ah....Manchester Central Library. I remember that place and the amazing echoes in the central dome area. My sister's studying nursing at Salford. I am originally from Rochdale and will be back there for a couple of weeks in early June - hopefully escaping the fierce Arizona heat for some cool Pennine weather and beer at the right temperature.
Are there any used electronic places in the north Manchester where I may be able to pick-up some used tubes?
Anyway, I switch off all my audio gear when not in use. I very much doubt that my ears and speakers are really that well tuned to pick out sonic differences in equipment that isn't fully warmed-up. As I said earlier, switch the gear on, go get a drink, pee, or whatever, then enjoy the music.
I also am reminded that many capacitors only have a limited life-span maybe measured in tens of thousands of hours. Now if rated at 10,000 hours a cap would only last just over a year! That is probably a little extreme, but even at 10 times that lifespan, leaving equipment powered-on will shorten it's lifespan.
I would also hate myself, if my equipment set the house on fire, grotesquely burned and painfully killed by two dear dogs, and left my family homeless. I am especially concerned about this as my preamp and main amp are DIY. Although, I feel confident of my handiwork, it would be very difficult to live with myself if my projects resulted in anything nasty occuring.
Regards,
Charlie
Ah....Manchester Central Library. I remember that place and the amazing echoes in the central dome area. My sister's studying nursing at Salford. I am originally from Rochdale and will be back there for a couple of weeks in early June - hopefully escaping the fierce Arizona heat for some cool Pennine weather and beer at the right temperature.
Are there any used electronic places in the north Manchester where I may be able to pick-up some used tubes?
Anyway, I switch off all my audio gear when not in use. I very much doubt that my ears and speakers are really that well tuned to pick out sonic differences in equipment that isn't fully warmed-up. As I said earlier, switch the gear on, go get a drink, pee, or whatever, then enjoy the music.
I also am reminded that many capacitors only have a limited life-span maybe measured in tens of thousands of hours. Now if rated at 10,000 hours a cap would only last just over a year! That is probably a little extreme, but even at 10 times that lifespan, leaving equipment powered-on will shorten it's lifespan.
I would also hate myself, if my equipment set the house on fire, grotesquely burned and painfully killed by two dear dogs, and left my family homeless. I am especially concerned about this as my preamp and main amp are DIY. Although, I feel confident of my handiwork, it would be very difficult to live with myself if my projects resulted in anything nasty occuring.
Regards,
Charlie
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