• WARNING: Tube/Valve amplifiers use potentially LETHAL HIGH VOLTAGES.
    Building, troubleshooting and testing of these amplifiers should only be
    performed by someone who is thoroughly familiar with
    the safety precautions around high voltages.

On Line Tube Learning for newbies....

Konnichiwa,

As I am one of those to complain loudest when some questions show a lack of basics, how about a thread to collect on-line resources for "TOOBZ NOOBZ"?

I propose these for starters, as being sufficiently and as covering enough ground to allow one who understand basic electronics (8th grade physics really) to understand "TOOBZ"!

RCA Raditron Manual Version 10 from the 1930's, especially pages 5 - 25 in the pdf file....

Bonavolta - Tubes for Newbies

If anyone knows a good on-line resource on basic Electronics (RLC, Kirchoff, Ohm, lentz etc) please post, this could be included as prefix to the above for a "crash-course in electronics".

Sayonara


The original ARMY 1952 tube manual is one of the best all around beginner sources I know of. My guess is that it was used for their Class A electronics school. It covers everything from physical construction, to electronics, to amplifier design, and does it in very friendly language. I don't see any copyright data in the manual, so I think it is free to share. Under the FOI act, it should be available to anyone.

Just to be safe, however, I'll post a PDF of it on my website: www.audiovib.net later today. You will see a new 'Reference' option show up under the "TIPS and TESTING" tab. Go to that option and download the Army Manual.

Cheers
 
Hi, I've not read each of all the 105 posts but it's clear to me that there is, without any doubt, a lot of good material to study, if one is willing to do it. I also appreciate all the links and the references for books.
Theoretically I think I know quite a lot but my practical experience stopped when I was young and, when recently, I've started to build the Audio Note Kit One, after many years is not working 100% for a lot of problems of which, I believe, should be interesting to talk about.
 
Valve Course with lab materials kits?

Now here is a question, teaser, idea for some of those among us here who presently make kits, or sell parts:
How about a beginners course with packaged hands on lab work kits?

I know many many here in this forum are grand masters of Tube Wizardry and I'll just bet they could create some really great lab work experiments complete with built in "gottcha"
problems !!!

Though a long time solder melter I would just love to go back...rediscover all that magic when first cobbling bits of wire and attempting to herd electrons !

Now I have grandchildren full of wonder at that mysterious amber blue glow.... damn they've got good ears!!

Just a thought. :spin:




And Thank you to everyone here.
 
Found a awesome tube site !

just happened to come across this site that is filled with tube amp projects. the guy put some time into gathering these links (apparently 3,000 of them) and breaks it down to what tubes are the top 100 used in projects online, to how many different projects are based on a certain tube. Really cool site, also has a lot of other useful and interesting links. check it out... but be warned you find yourself stuck in there for a few hours.:)
Homebrew Gridlock. Web Page of Russ Davis, K3UH

site menu on the left is the tube section.
 
Now here is a question, teaser, idea for some of those among us here who presently make kits, or sell parts:
How about a beginners course with packaged hands on lab work kits?

I know many many here in this forum are grand masters of Tube Wizardry and I'll just bet they could create some really great lab work experiments complete with built in "gottcha"
problems !!!

Though a long time solder melter I would just love to go back...rediscover all that magic when first cobbling bits of wire and attempting to herd electrons !

Now I have grandchildren full of wonder at that mysterious amber blue glow.... damn they've got good ears!!

Just a thought. :spin:

I like the idea. Another thought I had was to put together a normal kit using a video for description as opposed to a written manual. In the video one could talk through the reasons for choices and background as you build. Once the kit was complete, the builder would have both an understanding of the design and a good completed kit.




And Thank you to everyone here.
 
I like the idea. Another thought I had was to put together a normal kit using a video for description as opposed to a written manual. In the video one could talk through the reasons for choices and background as you build. Once the kit was complete, the builder would have both an understanding of the design and a good completed kit. [QUOTE/]


Yes. Pete Millett's newest could work very well.
Or an old fashioned step wise electronics learning lab that progresses from basic circuit and component operation to the power supply for Pete's amp. Then say an second lab kit that continues amplifier topology lab work ups concluding with his sweep tube amp.
Absolutely, a video DVD or internet stream.
I think it would be a great way for people to begin and for others to refresh and play, still others to teach.
That is how many of us began so many years ago with Eico, Knight, and Heathkit....
Mom's everywhere had burn marked tablecloths and mysterious silver blobs stuck to the odd thing here and there!!
 
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Now here is a question, teaser, idea for some of those among us here who presently make kits, or sell parts:
How about a beginners course with packaged hands on lab work kits?

Now I have grandchildren full of wonder at that mysterious amber blue glow.... damn they've got good ears!!

It is a good idea, but it would have to be low voltage for safety, or the seller would be risking legal liability in the event of an accident. Most of the kits available now are not aimed at nor attractive to beginners, so they have little to fear, but it's a different story when a 7 year old tries to put together a 250v PSU.

Grandchildren not only have great ears, but great eyes as well. Drop a tiny component on the carpet and you will spend ages looking for it. They will spot it in seconds :eek:

Gary
 
It is a good idea, but it would have to be low voltage for safety, or the seller would be risking legal liability in the event of an accident. Most of the kits available now are not aimed at nor attractive to beginners, so they have little to fear, but it's a different story when a 7 year old tries to put together a 250v PSU.

Grandchildren not only have great ears, but great eyes as well. Drop a tiny component on the carpet and you will spend ages looking for it. They will spot it in seconds :eek:

Gary

Well.............heck I still think a learning lab "breadboard" type device would appeal to all ages? I kinda think that we'd never have learnt anything years ago if the fear of getting hurt kept us from playing with old radios and other such junk as kids...
Now of course life needs to guaranteed safe to be be lived:eek:
 
Well.............heck I still think a learning lab "breadboard" type device would appeal to all ages?

Maybe a modular power supply, some breadboard panels and plug in tube socket pcb's. One could develop something from these pcb's:
Classic Valve Design - Original and Legacy Design PCB's


Which is where I got the idea that a really nice tube electronics learning lab would/could be nice to have available.

By the way, does anyone have a copy of "The Laboratory Manual" or "Instructor's Manual" for: "Fundamentals of Semiconductor and Tube Electronics" author: H. Alex Romanowitz 1962? I like to find a copy as mine long ago drifted away.
 
Stereo Tube Amp Class

If any one in the Austin, Texas area is or knows an absolute beginner to the bottle head culture, please pass this on. Lone Star School of Music is offering a Stereo Tube Amp Class. The class is scheduled to begin Saturday Jan 23rd and will for four weeks.
Music Lessons, Guitar, Bass, Drums, Mandolin, Accordian, Piano, Electric, Voice, Vocals, Lone Star School Of Muisc - Stereo Build - 1
Everyone will build a 12 watt S5 Electronics kit.
Feel free to pass this info on to anyone you know in the Austin area. It will be a lot of fun!
Thanks
 
Just wondering if someone can give an equivilant in terms of power output of a 40-watt tube amp as compared to a solid state amplifier? If so, how is it generally figured?

For instance, I came across a litle tube amp claiming 7 watts equivilant to 30 watts Solid State.

Thanks!

Ed
 
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Tube vs Transistor.

Just wondering if someone can give an equivilant in terms of power output of a 40-watt tube amp as compared to a solid state amplifier? If so, how is it generally figured?

For instance, I came across a litle tube amp claiming 7 watts equivilant to 30 watts Solid State.
Ed

This is a very grey area, but I generally use a 5 to 1 ratio for SE designs and ~4 to 1 for Push pull designs. SE amps distort in the even harmonics, and thus a minor overload is pleasant. PP have higher odd harmonic distortion and will start to become unpleasant earlier. Transistors have only odd harmonics and will become harsh with any overload.

I have put my 7W SE guitar amp design against a Fender Transistor 50W stack and it whomps it all over the place in attack, volume, and quality. Part of the reason is I use a lot of iron in my design, so there is a lot of stored inductive energy for attacks. Transistors hit a brick wall in overload--tubes fail gracefully after the stored energy is used up. If the tube design has a lot of negative feedback, then it generally will not perform as well in overload and you will need to derate my figures.
 
Just wondering if someone can give an equivilant in terms of power output of a 40-watt tube amp as compared to a solid state amplifier? If so, how is it generally figured?

He, he... if the load is the same then 40W is 40W is 40W, and it's not going to matter whether it's from a tube or a transistor. The equations for power be the same for all technologies!

If it 'sounds different' then look to other aspects, but not the power rating!

For instance, I came across a litle tube amp claiming 7 watts equivilant to 30 watts Solid State.

The marketing men should be thrown in prison!
 
True if you are just measuring steady state load--but the question referred to equivalence in what I assume is real listening use. Of course I do have to admit that more and more mastering compresses performances into a tighter and tighter band. Pretty soon we will have only .1 db of dymanic range in a recording--and then you are absolutely correct--it makes no difference at all.

However, for most performances there is significant dynamic and harmonic difference. In that case you have to consider transients, distortion relationships, harmonics, slew rates, stored energy, and so on. Specs never tell the whole story or else we would never need to listen to an amplifier before buying.
 
Hey everybody -

I have been doing some work on the web site, and have split off the technical books and tube data into a different domain. I did this partly in an effort to manage traffic, so I can split this info onto a different server more easily should I need to.

Pete Millett's DIY Audio pages still has the projects and misc. DIY audio stuff on it.

A new site, tubebooks.org - Vintage info from the age of vacuum tubes (also tubebooks.org - Vintage info from the age of vacuum tubes) now has the tube data and technical books.

There is a link to the new site from the old one. Also, if you go to one of the old pages you should get re-directed to the new one (for example, visiting redirect will bump you to Tube Data).

You may need to refresh your browser to get the updated pages, and re-adjust any bookmarks or links you may have.

Pete
 
Help

There are many links in these pages, I have clicked on a dozen of them and did a bunch of Google searches to re-find a favorite article which I failed to bookmark or just can't find. I had always meant to read it more than once so it could sink into my thick skull, but since I cannot find it I'm asking for you help.

This is the closest article to what I am looking for:
Milbert Amplifiers, Most Musical Amplifiers

I'm an architect, not an electrical engineer, so please forgive me if/when I mess up the terminology.

The article I'm looking for describes certain conditions where tubes can provide the "juice" transistors cannot. I think it says something to the affect that power circulating on the tube plates is available and drawn upon to amp up the blips in the signal which last only microseconds. Furthermore, transistors have no such reserve and those tiny flux spikes or blips get lost going back into a maze of supporting capacitors and transformers in a request for more energy.

I've made up some of my own jargon in layman's terms to avoid misuse of terms like signal transients , sorry about that.

I'd rather not use a word than to misuse a word.

Or as a president once said don't misunderestimate me.;)

Now help me find that silly article, please.

Cheers, George/kach22i