Just received a set of 2003 NOS(maybe) Western Electric 300b reissue
On my 539 hickok, one tube matches the GM results on the factory test card (4940uohm), the other tube tests just below 4400 uohm ((card says 4890uohm). Both currents though match with both tubes. The weaker tube does look like it was handled (scratches, dulling) so i suspect it might of been used.
I purchased these thinking they were NOS. Seller is willing to make it right so my question is should i be concerned about a 10% difference in GM test? I also dont have any idea how many hrs are on this tube and dont know what the tube is worth not being matched.
Or should i just send them back?
On my 539 hickok, one tube matches the GM results on the factory test card (4940uohm), the other tube tests just below 4400 uohm ((card says 4890uohm). Both currents though match with both tubes. The weaker tube does look like it was handled (scratches, dulling) so i suspect it might of been used.
I purchased these thinking they were NOS. Seller is willing to make it right so my question is should i be concerned about a 10% difference in GM test? I also dont have any idea how many hrs are on this tube and dont know what the tube is worth not being matched.
Or should i just send them back?
I used to be an authorized distributor in the late 1990s, early 2000s. Each tube in the matched pair was packed in its own box within a larger box if I recall correctly.
The 10% difference in reading would seem to indicate one had been used for some period of time. (That would seem to be the case from your description)
These were selected from specific runs and were pretty closely matched.
I was not able to compete on price with the guys in NYC who were selling batches of new 300B at swap meets at prices below what I was paying wholesale. I sold very few tubes.
Does the discussion with the seller include the possibility of just returning them for a refund?
The 10% difference in reading would seem to indicate one had been used for some period of time. (That would seem to be the case from your description)
These were selected from specific runs and were pretty closely matched.
I was not able to compete on price with the guys in NYC who were selling batches of new 300B at swap meets at prices below what I was paying wholesale. I sold very few tubes.
Does the discussion with the seller include the possibility of just returning them for a refund?
Best course of action.
I recommend the much less expensive JJ 300B, I have been using them for 20+ years and they are reliable and sound good. You can get well matched pairs. They are also substantially less expensive and sound/behave quite similarly to the WE300B. They are rugged and forgiving.
I recommend the much less expensive JJ 300B, I have been using them for 20+ years and they are reliable and sound good. You can get well matched pairs. They are also substantially less expensive and sound/behave quite similarly to the WE300B. They are rugged and forgiving.
The problem is not the 10% of difference on GM with a tube tester who check only one point.
The best selection must be made with a dinamic tube tester as Sofia or similar
In this way you can have the effective difference with a large range of -Vg.
I attached a example, it is 300B JJ
I have been the Italian distributor on 2000-2003 of WE new production that are developped at the end wth a supervision of an italian guy, Mr. Doleatto, who gave them some indication and some stuff. He was a owner of a big factory to build tubes for miltary in Turin, eneded on '70; in that location I have seen the biggest tube tester I know, around 3 square meter; Voltage till 5000 volts. I don't remember the brand.
Walter
The best selection must be made with a dinamic tube tester as Sofia or similar
In this way you can have the effective difference with a large range of -Vg.
I attached a example, it is 300B JJ
I have been the Italian distributor on 2000-2003 of WE new production that are developped at the end wth a supervision of an italian guy, Mr. Doleatto, who gave them some indication and some stuff. He was a owner of a big factory to build tubes for miltary in Turin, eneded on '70; in that location I have seen the biggest tube tester I know, around 3 square meter; Voltage till 5000 volts. I don't remember the brand.
Walter
Yes, the JJ 2A3-40 has the same plate as the excellent quality JJ 300B tube allowing for a higher wattage operating point. However, it is a 2A3 based upon its load lines and operating points. The JJ 2A3-40 will bias up at 250V @ 60 mA with a grid bias of -45V making it a 2A3. The JJ 300B will bias at 250V @ 60mA with a grid bias of -60V.
The 300B -JJ
Typical characteristic:
Ua = 300 V
Ug1 = -61 V
Ia = 60 mA
S = 5,5 mA/V
Ri = 700 Ω
μ = 3,85
The 2A3-40
Typical characteristic:
Ua = 250 V
Ug = -45 V
Ia = 60 mA
S = 5,25 mA/V
mu= 4,2
Ri = 800 Ω
The capacitances are the same.
from JJ site
For me are very similar; I worked with both and the working point are very similar
Walter
Typical characteristic:
Ua = 300 V
Ug1 = -61 V
Ia = 60 mA
S = 5,5 mA/V
Ri = 700 Ω
μ = 3,85
The 2A3-40
Typical characteristic:
Ua = 250 V
Ug = -45 V
Ia = 60 mA
S = 5,25 mA/V
mu= 4,2
Ri = 800 Ω
The capacitances are the same.
from JJ site
For me are very similar; I worked with both and the working point are very similar
Walter
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Back in the late eighties I used to sell surplus test equipment to a Bernardo Doleatto from Turin. He used to travel to America to attend the Dayton, Ohio Hamvention where I met him. He was the only man there walking around the outside flea market in a suit and tie.
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I don't see your point: the JJ 2A3-40 has the exact same specifications as a 2A3 from 1938. How can it possibly be a 300B?
Attachments
The JJ 2A3-40 is a derivative of the JJ300B, same plate and envelope, revised filament and grid.
I don't think Walter was saying the 2A3-40 was not legitimately a 2A3 type rather than just a 300B with just a different filament, that clearly isn't the case.
He was commenting that in his experience the two types are not that different practically speaking.
I've found other than slightly lower mu that at lower plate voltages found in 2A3 applications the differences in bias voltages for a given operating point are not very far apart. Given parametric spread in tubes it is likely you will find 300B at 250V that will bias close to 60mA at -45 to -50V. Maybe that is what he was touching on?
I will admit I like the 300B better and run them at much higher voltages, 400V - 420V @70mA with fixed bias. (5K transformers in my application)
I don't think Walter was saying the 2A3-40 was not legitimately a 2A3 type rather than just a 300B with just a different filament, that clearly isn't the case.
He was commenting that in his experience the two types are not that different practically speaking.
I've found other than slightly lower mu that at lower plate voltages found in 2A3 applications the differences in bias voltages for a given operating point are not very far apart. Given parametric spread in tubes it is likely you will find 300B at 250V that will bias close to 60mA at -45 to -50V. Maybe that is what he was touching on?
I will admit I like the 300B better and run them at much higher voltages, 400V - 420V @70mA with fixed bias. (5K transformers in my application)
Mr. Doleatto was a amazing man.
When I visit his warehouse he explained me each part of the rooms where the tubes were made.
Fantastic moments.
Walter
Well, the seller became angry when I wanted to return the tubes...
On Friday, he stated he had some more tubes that he could send me but didn't tell me if they were used, matched or new. I asked Saturday night in an email and didn't get a response. He gave me a $200 partial refund on Saturday night and didn't respond to my questions I had. After going silent, I started a Ebay return.
That's when he warned me not to send back a substituted tube and that these tubes had serial numbers. And warned he would promptly file a police report. He claimed the picture I sent him didn't look like the tube he shipped and didn't remember the dulling at the base (that looked like fingernail scratches and oil from fingerprints).
I immediately unpacked the box and took some photos of the serial number and captured some of the dulling on the tube that indicated it was used (other than the test results). I sent him a message with the photo's and said since we have some trust issues, I took some photo's of the serial numbers with the scuffing. I also gave him my bio so he could look me up and call me since Ebay doesn't allow phone numbers to be exchanged thru messaging system.
That's when I was called arrogant and lacked courtesy.
Wow! That's all I can say....
Stay away from heavenlysounds on Ebay...
On Friday, he stated he had some more tubes that he could send me but didn't tell me if they were used, matched or new. I asked Saturday night in an email and didn't get a response. He gave me a $200 partial refund on Saturday night and didn't respond to my questions I had. After going silent, I started a Ebay return.
That's when he warned me not to send back a substituted tube and that these tubes had serial numbers. And warned he would promptly file a police report. He claimed the picture I sent him didn't look like the tube he shipped and didn't remember the dulling at the base (that looked like fingernail scratches and oil from fingerprints).
I immediately unpacked the box and took some photos of the serial number and captured some of the dulling on the tube that indicated it was used (other than the test results). I sent him a message with the photo's and said since we have some trust issues, I took some photo's of the serial numbers with the scuffing. I also gave him my bio so he could look me up and call me since Ebay doesn't allow phone numbers to be exchanged thru messaging system.
That's when I was called arrogant and lacked courtesy.
Wow! That's all I can say....
Stay away from heavenlysounds on Ebay...
I have an amp designed around the JJ2A3 but wanted just a little more power. My transformer is already 5K and voltages are up to par with a 300B circuit. Sounds like you prefer the 300B but looking for something a little better than the JJ which is why I wanted to try the reissue WE 300B
JJ 2A3-40W:
2.5V from the center to one end of the filament, and 2.5V from the center to the other end of the filament.
With AC powered filament, that is 3.54V peak. Delta voltage across the filament to the grid is 3.54V peak.
With DC powered filament, that is 2.5V. Delta voltage across the filament to the grid is 2.5V.
With a JJ 2A3-40, you get a 2.5V filament, low delta voltage from filament to grid; a plate maximum dissipation of 40W; maximum plate voltage of 450V, and maximum plate current of 100mA.
And, except for the larger glass envelope, you can plug-and-play a JJ 2A3-40 into any 2A3 amplifier.
Additionally, you can operate the JJ 2A3-40 at 300B voltages, currents, plate dissipation, and plate load impedances.
(Have Fun!)
With a classic 2A3, you get max plate volts 300V, max plate dissipation 15W
300V @ 50mA; 250V @ 60mA; 200V @ 75mA (bias at -29V, -43.5V, and -59V respectively)
https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/127/2/2A3.pdf
Most 300B tubes:
5V from the center to one end of the filament, and 5V from the center to the other end of the filament.
With AC powered filament, that is 7.07V peak. Delta voltage across the filament to the grid is 7.07V peak.
With DC powered filament, that is 5V. Delta voltage across the filament to the grid is 5V.
2.5V from the center to one end of the filament, and 2.5V from the center to the other end of the filament.
With AC powered filament, that is 3.54V peak. Delta voltage across the filament to the grid is 3.54V peak.
With DC powered filament, that is 2.5V. Delta voltage across the filament to the grid is 2.5V.
With a JJ 2A3-40, you get a 2.5V filament, low delta voltage from filament to grid; a plate maximum dissipation of 40W; maximum plate voltage of 450V, and maximum plate current of 100mA.
And, except for the larger glass envelope, you can plug-and-play a JJ 2A3-40 into any 2A3 amplifier.
Additionally, you can operate the JJ 2A3-40 at 300B voltages, currents, plate dissipation, and plate load impedances.
(Have Fun!)
With a classic 2A3, you get max plate volts 300V, max plate dissipation 15W
300V @ 50mA; 250V @ 60mA; 200V @ 75mA (bias at -29V, -43.5V, and -59V respectively)
https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/127/2/2A3.pdf
Most 300B tubes:
5V from the center to one end of the filament, and 5V from the center to the other end of the filament.
With AC powered filament, that is 7.07V peak. Delta voltage across the filament to the grid is 7.07V peak.
With DC powered filament, that is 5V. Delta voltage across the filament to the grid is 5V.
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