My TTG-KT88SE does sound worse than a power supply toroid and a cheap transformer from China. I only tested it once and then I've put it aside to do further tests, because the mismatch between specifications and actual results was made me thinking that I was doing something wrong. I still hope that maybe I only need a different application.
Edcor's closest: EDCOR - CXPP50-3.4K
You get what you pay for -- the Hammond costs double but it's also Made in Canada...
1650K
Or you do what I do - 4 of these for a stereo amplifier for less than ONE hammond. Lower DCR, more power handling, better FR, too. No UL of course, but I only use triode connected tubes so who cares?
If only I had an audio analyzer to show the results... If anyone in the GTA has one and wants to have a session - I've had my first vaccine https://www.arrow.com/en/products/vpt12-8330/triad-magnetics
EDIT: I just realised the coil you linked was for SE. The entire time I've been talking only about PP. My bad. I can't speak about SE transformers since the only SE amp I ever built was a MOSFET source follower, and when it comes to the costs, I can't see a reason no to go PP so all of my designs are PP
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People are just going to have to suck it and see, I've seen people retort that they can't possibly work (usually the same few people)so many times that it gets boring responding, comparisons are generally not with the run of the mill commercial OT's that most people are using. Those who try generally come back with favourable results and you lose very little if you are disappointed since these transformers can easily be reused as heater transformers.
They generally work well as Parafeed SE OT as well.
Shoog
They generally work well as Parafeed SE OT as well.
Shoog
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You read the specs and make conclusions. That is not the case. Same goes for the small transformers. Even the cheap ones at 20-25$ make 40KHz.
Budget Output Transformers | Tubelab
A typical guitar amp output transformer I make is 1 single secondary sandwiched between the 2 primary halves and yet this makes 40KHz (-3dB) too ...on EI core. The PP is easier because the PP connection technically halves the capacitance.
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Try wrapping the entire primary under the secondary like a typical EI PT and see how that goes
Even the 70$ Hammond 5W 125BSE is only rated to 15kHz... And 100Hz for LF? No thanks LOL
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I'm certainly not saying EI can't sound good... I'm just saying a pair of toroidal PTs will give better results for less money in my experience.
Even the 70$ Hammond 5W 125BSE is only rated to 15kHz... And 100Hz for LF? No thanks LOL
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I'm certainly not saying EI can't sound good... I'm just saying a pair of toroidal PTs will give better results for less money in my experience.
Its hardly true to say that people rave about Hammond and Edcor Iron, and the main complaint is uneven response and poor high frequency. These are the bread and butter iron of the DIY worlds and they get poor feedback so I think its fair to take their catalogue specs as optimistically accurate.
Shoog
Shoog
I think, actually i am CERTAIN, you have read comments about a specific model. You want to generalize for your peace of mind but it's just wrong. Sorry Shoog but that is. Believe what you want....
Yes, I am saying that you should try before thrashing it. Big manufacturers on cheap products play safe that might be one reason to not take the specs as the bible.
Otherwise a toroidal PSU would go in the bin straightway. Or not? If I had to believe the specs a typical low cost toroidal would not suitable with its typical (RATED) 15-20 mH leakage inductance....
I don't really understand why your thinking works one way only. It's not really the case.
Otherwise a toroidal PSU would go in the bin straightway. Or not? If I had to believe the specs a typical low cost toroidal would not suitable with its typical (RATED) 15-20 mH leakage inductance....
I don't really understand why your thinking works one way only. It's not really the case.
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But you've never tried it so you have no idea of it's up you your "standard"... You're making assumptions similar to the ones you're telling us not to make about spec sheets, aren't you?
Similar to the "It's Chinese so it must be garbage" rhetoric I see here and there but those same people are using a Chinese iPhone or computer to write their posts...
You're making assumptions similar to the ones you're telling us not to make about spec sheets, aren't you?Similar to the "It's Chinese so it must be garbage" rhetoric I see here and there but those same people are using a Chinese iPhone or computer to write their posts...
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But you've never tried it so you have no idea of it's up you your "standard"...
Similar to the "It's Chinese so it must be garbage" rhetoric I see here and there but those same people are using a Chinese iPhone or computer to write their posts...
Really? I have no idea, right. Haha maybe it's the other way around. I wrote the contrary of you think but clearly you have not read what I wrote. It was not me trashing PSU toroidals but I only tried to point of that dismissing EI transformers = ignorance.
For the rest you cannot expect the same level of a quality transformer. Do you know the difference? I do because I have everything from garbage to top quality.
If someone is convinced that inexpensive toroid power and output transformers are not good enough, no one is ever going to convince them and they’re free to spend their money any way the see fit. No point in arguing about it. If you have found run of the mill Hammond, Edcor, or even Chinese iron to be good enough for your purposes, the cheap Antek and Triad power toroids are certainly worth a try. No one said ther’re the end-all be-all of output transformers but It certainly does bring the cost barrier down, especially for experimenting. Can’t really do a hundred buck amp challenge if the OPT costs a hundred bucks. An amp that rolls off above 15 kHz sounds better than no amp at all. And if they don’t work out they can find their way into other projects.
Best method is to ue a proper OT, period.
You are saving cents, if any since you will still need to buy chssis, hardware, tubes, PT, .... and even the power toroid, which is NOT free, all to get abysmal specs, severely limited design choices, etc.
Absolute best case it will be a kludge, and a poorly performing one.
I'm sorry. I missed the part where you said you tried it and didn't like it. Especially the method employed in post #4. I didn't dismiss EI, just simply said toroidal works better IMHO. I have Hammond 1650N and my various Triad set ups. I will probably never buy purpose sold tube output transformers again.
Post #4? So I should be bound to use a 3K transformer for anything because a toroidal PSU at 10K doesn't work.
The EL34 is the classic example of super-common tube that in triode mode works miles better with 8-10K. For me, without a doubt, it's 10K at 400V and about 50 mA with cathode bias: pure class A. 15W at 1% THD without any feedback and up to 20-21W with 3% THD limit if the speaker load halves. Basic JJ EL34 which, given the cost of 18W sweep tubes have now reached, is not more expensive. Can drive and make sing most commercial speakers without troubles. If I can also add little amount of cathode feedback even better but also without it just works better for this tube.
2.5K or thereabout works for 8 EL34 per channel in triode mode for 60W Class A. But this is not a budget amplifier by any standard....not even possible/advisable to be made as stereo amp.
With 2xEL34 per channel, 3K only works for pentode mode. Good with cathode feedback + some global feedback. With global feedback only...meh! Honestly, in the latter case I find a well made budget off-the-shelf solid state amplifier like a Rega io far superior.....
The EL34 is the classic example of super-common tube that in triode mode works miles better with 8-10K. For me, without a doubt, it's 10K at 400V and about 50 mA with cathode bias: pure class A. 15W at 1% THD without any feedback and up to 20-21W with 3% THD limit if the speaker load halves. Basic JJ EL34 which, given the cost of 18W sweep tubes have now reached, is not more expensive. Can drive and make sing most commercial speakers without troubles. If I can also add little amount of cathode feedback even better but also without it just works better for this tube.
2.5K or thereabout works for 8 EL34 per channel in triode mode for 60W Class A. But this is not a budget amplifier by any standard....not even possible/advisable to be made as stereo amp.
With 2xEL34 per channel, 3K only works for pentode mode. Good with cathode feedback + some global feedback. With global feedback only...meh! Honestly, in the latter case I find a well made budget off-the-shelf solid state amplifier like a Rega io far superior.....