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E130L PP Power Amplifier
E130L PP Power Amplifier
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Old 24th November 2020, 04:01 PM   #101
frentec is offline frentec  France
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I might leave the UL out for now, as it it's going to be challenging atm.
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Old 24th November 2020, 06:42 PM   #102
bohrok2610 is offline bohrok2610  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koonw View Post
Thank you too, I did check, it's pretty close. Do forget to add screen current to anode current for triode plot.
I have used this E130L triode model before. The curves also match the datasheet quite well. However there is a big difference in grid current. Your new model seems to exaggerate the grid current at least in SE mode.

.SUBCKT E130L_T 1 2 3 ; Plate Grid Cathode
+ PARAMS: CCG=35P CGP=2P CCP=17P RGI=2000
+ MU=7.602 KG1=390.0 KP=60.0
+ KVB=14.625 VCT=0.168 EX=1.806
* Vp_MAX=250.0 Ip_MAX=0.7
* Vg_step=2.0 Vg_start=0.0 Vg_count=10.0
*----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E1 7 0 VALUE={V(1,3)/KP*LOG(1+EXP(KP*(1/MU+(VCT+V(2,3))/SQRT(KVB+V(1,3)*V(1,3)))))}
RE1 7 0 1G ; TO AVOID FLOATING NODES
G1 1 3 VALUE={(PWR(V(7),EX)+PWRS(V(7),EX))/KG1}
RCP 1 3 1G ; TO AVOID FLOATING NODES
C1 2 3 {CCG} ; CATHODE-GRID
C2 2 1 {CGP} ; GRID=PLATE
C3 1 3 {CCP} ; CATHODE-PLATE
D3 5 3 DX ; POSITIVE GRID CURRENT
R1 2 5 {RGI} ; POSITIVE GRID CURRENT
.MODEL DX D(IS=1N RS=1 CJO=10PF TT=1N)
.ENDS
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Old 24th November 2020, 08:26 PM   #103
frentec is offline frentec  France
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[QUOTE=Koonw;6423842]Two more snapshots, 250V and 300V HT version, hope these help in your project. If you want the sim asc let me know.[/Q

the only difference here is that I have 1.6k impedance transformers, (which is what philips recommend) with UL tap (43%).
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Old 24th November 2020, 08:29 PM   #104
frentec is offline frentec  France
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Default ASc's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koonw View Post
Here is the sim asc(s):
I can't open them
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Old 25th November 2020, 03:20 AM   #105
Koonw is offline Koonw
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You save the file and then open with LTSpice, make sure it has .asc and not .txt extension.
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Old 25th November 2020, 03:31 AM   #106
Koonw is offline Koonw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bohrok2610 View Post
I have used this E130L triode model before. The curves also match the datasheet quite well. However there is a big difference in grid current. Your new model seems to exaggerate the grid current at least in SE mode.

.SUBCKT E130L_T 1 2 3 ; Plate Grid Cathode
+ PARAMS: CCG=35P CGP=2P CCP=17P RGI=2000
+ MU=7.602 KG1=390.0 KP=60.0
+ KVB=14.625 VCT=0.168 EX=1.806
* Vp_MAX=250.0 Ip_MAX=0.7
* Vg_step=2.0 Vg_start=0.0 Vg_count=10.0
*----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E1 7 0 VALUE={V(1,3)/KP*LOG(1+EXP(KP*(1/MU+(VCT+V(2,3))/SQRT(KVB+V(1,3)*V(1,3)))))}
RE1 7 0 1G ; TO AVOID FLOATING NODES
G1 1 3 VALUE={(PWR(V(7),EX)+PWRS(V(7),EX))/KG1}
RCP 1 3 1G ; TO AVOID FLOATING NODES
C1 2 3 {CCG} ; CATHODE-GRID
C2 2 1 {CGP} ; GRID=PLATE
C3 1 3 {CCP} ; CATHODE-PLATE
D3 5 3 DX ; POSITIVE GRID CURRENT
R1 2 5 {RGI} ; POSITIVE GRID CURRENT
.MODEL DX D(IS=1N RS=1 CJO=10PF TT=1N)
.ENDS
The grid current of either model has not effect unless you're dealing with small signal tube and operation point near zero bias. However some power tubes has very large grid current e.g 6c33cb and curve is only good from -2V. Some tube curves has small grid current curve at the left bottom e.g Russian 6N2P, grid can be included quite accurately.

The grid current in the model file is controlled by value of IGA, IGB and IGC which can be adjusted to match grid current curve. But Paint tool allows you to do repaint it by pasting the model files into "Model" and then "Update", this is how all my models are updated.
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Old 25th November 2020, 05:49 AM   #107
Koonw is offline Koonw
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[QUOTE=frentec;6424452]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koonw View Post
Two more snapshots, 250V and 300V HT version, hope these help in your project. If you want the sim asc let me know.[/Q

the only difference here is that I have 1.6k impedance transformers, (which is what philips recommend) with UL tap (43%).

Yes why, that make a lot of difference to triode power output. With 1k6 250V the output power becomes more even among the mode. I leave 300V version for you to work on then.
Attached Images
File Type: png E130L PP Pentode UL Triode PP 1K6-8 250V sim.png (94.1 KB, 91 views)
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Old 25th November 2020, 06:39 AM   #108
Koonw is offline Koonw
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I wrongly put in last attachment here is the correction for 250V, 1k6 OT:


Pentode out 21V sg_ampl=12V, Thd 5.3% @27.5W Pout
UL out 16V sg_ampl =23.5V, Thd 1.38% @16W Pout
Triode out 21V sg_ampl=23.5V, Thd 1.37% @27.5W Pout
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Old 25th November 2020, 07:34 AM   #109
frentec is offline frentec  France
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Thank you kwoon, you’re a diamond
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Old 25th November 2020, 08:58 AM   #110
bohrok2610 is offline bohrok2610  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koonw View Post
Yes why, that make a lot of difference to triode power output. With 1k6 250V the output power becomes more even among the mode.
Please note that triode PP with 1k6 load at that operating point will exceed the anode dissipation limit. E130Ls (or other top cap output tubes) will turn gassy with excessive anode dissipation.
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