Western Electric 300B production news 2020 Made By Hand in the USA | From the Rossville Works - YouTube
For future DIY builders of the 300B amplifiers , interesting article by Akihiko Kaneta = professor Kaneda San
MJ^9404_(02)DC-amp_300B-single-power-amp_KanedaA.pdf - Google Drive Have a great Sunday
MJ^9404_(02)DC-amp_300B-single-power-amp_KanedaA.pdf - Google Drive Have a great Sunday
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8watt to expensive for myself. To many solutions inside of one tube invented long time ago. But the tube remain the same. One thousand percent more expensive. They need to undoubtedly they want to recoup the investment and they find a group that believes that this valve sounds better and that fortunately they have no financial problems to buy it. Then they themselves will obviously say that it sounds much better and will come up with a myriad of subjective qualifiers such as texture, color, opacity, transparency, precision, and height.
What was the common rate of pay for 1 hour of work in 1961?
What is the common rate of pay for 1 hour of work in 2020?
(59 years of inflation).
And . . .
The 300B was easy to purchase then, . . . how many would you like?
Now, it is limited supply (sometimes available, sometimes not).
There are many hundreds of steps to the production of a single WE300B.
Ask Charles Whitener.
What is the common rate of pay for 1 hour of work in 2020?
(59 years of inflation).
And . . .
The 300B was easy to purchase then, . . . how many would you like?
Now, it is limited supply (sometimes available, sometimes not).
There are many hundreds of steps to the production of a single WE300B.
Ask Charles Whitener.
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If in 1961 someone bought an item for $ 4, in 2020 the item would cost $ 34.77.
Inflation rate equals 769%
The price paid for real (NOS) WE 300B tubes, early sixties manufactures is often over $1000!
So you see, the price is, for the most part, NOT inflation driven but expresses a kind of rarity and sought after for this special audio tube.
Its been acceptable that the price of new production 300B today is represented by its handmade and small batch manufacturing method but the price of an almost obsolete tube in 1961 just before the asians came to start collecting this tube represented for that time the same market mechanismn as today.
Even Charles Whitener would add a bonus for rarety and sought after factor in his price calculation. The right price for any product is being calculated from a schemata learned by any salesman. It's the price where maximum profit could be achieved from selling the product. Its NOT the price that represents manufacturing (and labour) costs plus a small add for the companies profit. Its all about to maximise the profit and that leads towards the actual market price of a Whitener 300B.
Inflation rate equals 769%
The price paid for real (NOS) WE 300B tubes, early sixties manufactures is often over $1000!
So you see, the price is, for the most part, NOT inflation driven but expresses a kind of rarity and sought after for this special audio tube.
Its been acceptable that the price of new production 300B today is represented by its handmade and small batch manufacturing method but the price of an almost obsolete tube in 1961 just before the asians came to start collecting this tube represented for that time the same market mechanismn as today.
Even Charles Whitener would add a bonus for rarety and sought after factor in his price calculation. The right price for any product is being calculated from a schemata learned by any salesman. It's the price where maximum profit could be achieved from selling the product. Its NOT the price that represents manufacturing (and labour) costs plus a small add for the companies profit. Its all about to maximise the profit and that leads towards the actual market price of a Whitener 300B.
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Moving the WE operations from Kansas, with some of the experienced workers, to Georgia could not have been cheap.
And then there were vendors who quit making some of the basic materials for the tube.
A new contract with a new vendor was not going to be at the old price.
Insurance rates, property tax, leased or purchased buildings, lawyers, permits and fees, etc. are much higher now. Some of these items did not even exist back in the 60s.
Cities tax, new types of permits, etc.
Yes, there are many new boutique products that are priced way too high.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder (so is perceived value)
One of my parents houses purchased in 1962 was $10,000.
That same home today would be priced at about $180,000 or more.
That is 1800%.
During that year, the Gas War price for a gallon of gas was $0.19 (yeah, 19 cents).
Not only production costs, legal costs, permits, taxes, etc.
Inflation of housing is far more than 769%. It has nothing to do with Boutique.
Come a 'modern' city like Seattle, Portland, etc.
Check what prices were 59 years ago, compared to today.
A dime got you a bus ride. How much is public transportation today?
Inflation is more dependent on what you actually measure, than anything else.
Statistics are liars.
The old rules of bean counters holds true . . .
Inflation, how much would you like it to be?
And on which set of books?
And then there were vendors who quit making some of the basic materials for the tube.
A new contract with a new vendor was not going to be at the old price.
Insurance rates, property tax, leased or purchased buildings, lawyers, permits and fees, etc. are much higher now. Some of these items did not even exist back in the 60s.
Cities tax, new types of permits, etc.
Yes, there are many new boutique products that are priced way too high.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder (so is perceived value)
One of my parents houses purchased in 1962 was $10,000.
That same home today would be priced at about $180,000 or more.
That is 1800%.
During that year, the Gas War price for a gallon of gas was $0.19 (yeah, 19 cents).
Not only production costs, legal costs, permits, taxes, etc.
Inflation of housing is far more than 769%. It has nothing to do with Boutique.
Come a 'modern' city like Seattle, Portland, etc.
Check what prices were 59 years ago, compared to today.
A dime got you a bus ride. How much is public transportation today?
Inflation is more dependent on what you actually measure, than anything else.
Statistics are liars.
The old rules of bean counters holds true . . .
Inflation, how much would you like it to be?
And on which set of books?
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We agree that the official inflation is only a statistical measure for the countries goverments to regulate and adjust their money policy. And it can be easily tweaked to every wanted direction and value.
In germony, it is represented by a standarized bundle of different goods prices. Who selected this and who benefitted from those selections made?
What happens beyound the scenes is that the system is actually flooded with fresh money and they could only do this because one parameter (inflation) will not represent in full the real results of that money policy. It simply results in astronomic prices in special selected sectors of the economy like houses. I noticed those price increases most often with desired (sought after) goods that are out of production or couldn't be increased in quantity (like houses, square feets of properties, oldtimer cars etc.) All of those supplies is finite and in the case of original tubes its limited supply is really going to drain out.
Some 20 years ago I remember to saw WE 555 drivers on ebay for really cheap prices.
That was the time when ebay became popular worldwide and when international trade for the private audiophile became usual. Before that, ebay was more on the national trade side. But when the business of ordering became international, prices risen sharply.
Today one 555 driver in good condition sells for $7500 where they firstly was offerend on ebay for some hundred dollars. And thats exactly the same with old NOS tubes.
With the Whitener 300B, as a graduate in economics, its fully understood to me, why that price of a tube couldn't be cheaper than it is in real money today. There is simply a market which is able to accept those prices. Even the asians (in particular the chinese) aim to shift their tubes with premium versions in those price regions. And they are successfull with that strategy. So why shouldn't the best replica of many cost a fortune when even the asians could demand such high prices. Understood, no problem with that. I wish for a long and prosperity rich future of the Company thats called WE today. Its just a win win situation for both sides.
In germony, it is represented by a standarized bundle of different goods prices. Who selected this and who benefitted from those selections made?
What happens beyound the scenes is that the system is actually flooded with fresh money and they could only do this because one parameter (inflation) will not represent in full the real results of that money policy. It simply results in astronomic prices in special selected sectors of the economy like houses. I noticed those price increases most often with desired (sought after) goods that are out of production or couldn't be increased in quantity (like houses, square feets of properties, oldtimer cars etc.) All of those supplies is finite and in the case of original tubes its limited supply is really going to drain out.
Some 20 years ago I remember to saw WE 555 drivers on ebay for really cheap prices.
That was the time when ebay became popular worldwide and when international trade for the private audiophile became usual. Before that, ebay was more on the national trade side. But when the business of ordering became international, prices risen sharply.
Today one 555 driver in good condition sells for $7500 where they firstly was offerend on ebay for some hundred dollars. And thats exactly the same with old NOS tubes.
With the Whitener 300B, as a graduate in economics, its fully understood to me, why that price of a tube couldn't be cheaper than it is in real money today. There is simply a market which is able to accept those prices. Even the asians (in particular the chinese) aim to shift their tubes with premium versions in those price regions. And they are successfull with that strategy. So why shouldn't the best replica of many cost a fortune when even the asians could demand such high prices. Understood, no problem with that. I wish for a long and prosperity rich future of the Company thats called WE today. Its just a win win situation for both sides.
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Its a good investment. Same as oldtimer cars, Rolex and such high value things.
For me, german tubes do it sufficiently. Real WE is the sport of kings but to have a WE tube only wouldn't do the trick. Todays 300B amps mostly sound completely different to the old WE stuff with its restricted bandwith. But if you want to have the best of both worlds- why not put a Whitener tube to work in a new asian amp design?
For me, german tubes do it sufficiently. Real WE is the sport of kings but to have a WE tube only wouldn't do the trick. Todays 300B amps mostly sound completely different to the old WE stuff with its restricted bandwith. But if you want to have the best of both worlds- why not put a Whitener tube to work in a new asian amp design?
Yes we need people buying tubes to keep things alive + zillion
@ Schmitz77
Professor Kaneda San have a lots of experience , more 40 years of the audio design in Japan.
Build his DIY amp is an interesting use of 300B's triodes.
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pretending this expensive tube is all about the sound would be a stretch for me, it's about brand, history, nostalgia, buying american, supporting craftwork etc. Just look at the marketing from WE, the photos of the past, the close ups of the factory, the retro-packaging. This is what you are buying, it is the Morgan of convertibles.
I always remember the wise words from those who have designed and published their designs and had them tested in the fire of the marketplace - the sound of a 300B amplifier is weakly dependent on the tube, most of it comes from the driver, the power supply and in some measure from the output transformer. The operating point being as critical as the parts choices.
That doesn't mean an expensive 300B isn't nice to own. I'd like to own one of these tubes, they look the business... I already have too many tubes.
fyi - Sakuma-san would sometimes put a 300B or 845 into the driver seat rather than the output tube socket so he could 'hear it'
I always remember the wise words from those who have designed and published their designs and had them tested in the fire of the marketplace - the sound of a 300B amplifier is weakly dependent on the tube, most of it comes from the driver, the power supply and in some measure from the output transformer. The operating point being as critical as the parts choices.
That doesn't mean an expensive 300B isn't nice to own. I'd like to own one of these tubes, they look the business... I already have too many tubes.
fyi - Sakuma-san would sometimes put a 300B or 845 into the driver seat rather than the output tube socket so he could 'hear it'
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Bigun,
Sakuma San is well known since ages when his designs were initially published on the web.
He is absolutely right about choosing a beefy driver tube instead of a whimpy one.
In audio, for the audiofools there are many options to buy boutique parts.
Any amp is just as good as its components. And every part is audible and contributes to the summary of output sound. Nothing new under this sun.
If you prefer to buy cheaper tubes, me too. As I said, real WE is the sport of the kings.
And to listen to a real WE amp might be for many dissapointing.
Because todays listening preferences are totally different.
Sakuma San is well known since ages when his designs were initially published on the web.
He is absolutely right about choosing a beefy driver tube instead of a whimpy one.
In audio, for the audiofools there are many options to buy boutique parts.
Any amp is just as good as its components. And every part is audible and contributes to the summary of output sound. Nothing new under this sun.
If you prefer to buy cheaper tubes, me too. As I said, real WE is the sport of the kings.
And to listen to a real WE amp might be for many dissapointing.
Because todays listening preferences are totally different.
