THEORY AND PRACTISE OF WIDE BANDWIDTH TOROIDAL OUTPUT TRANSFORMERS MENNO VAN DER VEEN http://www.next-tube.com/articles/Veen/VeenEN.pdf
In the article, the equivalent model is the most primitive. Skin effect is not taken into account only known that the wire is the usual round resistance of windings for one of the models 37.8 and 0.16 Ohm, respectively. It is unlikely that he measured the resistance at high frequencies. Losses in the magnetic circuit are also not taken into account, but I know that the magnetic circuit is amorphous and roughly loss in it is three times less than in the steel one. Q above 0.7 he considers not permissible. Although it brings typical values of Q of other manufacturers in the range of 0.5-1.
In the article, the equivalent model is the most primitive. Skin effect is not taken into account only known that the wire is the usual round resistance of windings for one of the models 37.8 and 0.16 Ohm, respectively. It is unlikely that he measured the resistance at high frequencies. Losses in the magnetic circuit are also not taken into account, but I know that the magnetic circuit is amorphous and roughly loss in it is three times less than in the steel one. Q above 0.7 he considers not permissible. Although it brings typical values of Q of other manufacturers in the range of 0.5-1.
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You quickly write but not on the topic. Where do I have a commercial offer in my post? Read the article, the speech about Q-factor and its influence on the frequency band. Litz also influence on the Q and affects on the frequency band.
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Van der Veen did not take into account losses in the magnetic circuit in his model, or kept silent about it because of low losses without specifying the composition of the magnetic circuit.
I saw his presentation in Belgrade, he just hides the kind of material and floridly evaded the direct answer. But on the graphs, judging by the permeability characteristics, it was an amorphous or nanocrystalline alloy.
I saw his presentation in Belgrade, he just hides the kind of material and floridly evaded the direct answer. But on the graphs, judging by the permeability characteristics, it was an amorphous or nanocrystalline alloy.
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Did you ever see Plitron output transformers specifying amorphous cores??
If so, Menno would yell it from the roofs, and would have spend another article on it (he is that kind of guy).
I know that he evades direct answers; I remember that he asked me why I used amorphous cores because he did not see the advantages (by the way I switched from amorphous to nanocrystalline c-cores already 5 years ago, having used amorphous cores since 2000).
But when you are convinced that he uses amorphous, it's ok with me....
From Plitron website:
Design Parameters
Low Frequency Performance – Low End Performance is a direct function of high primary inductance. The gapless High Permeability Low loss Hi-B Silicone Steel Core is excellently suited, with all grains oriented in the preferred direction is easily capable to deliver low-end response to 10 – 20 Hz (or less) at full power.
If so, Menno would yell it from the roofs, and would have spend another article on it (he is that kind of guy).
I know that he evades direct answers; I remember that he asked me why I used amorphous cores because he did not see the advantages (by the way I switched from amorphous to nanocrystalline c-cores already 5 years ago, having used amorphous cores since 2000).
But when you are convinced that he uses amorphous, it's ok with me....
From Plitron website:
Design Parameters
Low Frequency Performance – Low End Performance is a direct function of high primary inductance. The gapless High Permeability Low loss Hi-B Silicone Steel Core is excellently suited, with all grains oriented in the preferred direction is easily capable to deliver low-end response to 10 – 20 Hz (or less) at full power.
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Plitron output transformers most likely they are steel and at a price with Amplimo are very different.
There is a video of this presentation, see for yourself and tell your opinion, graphics and questions on the material in this video at the very end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCn3LkMqG5A
There is a video of this presentation, see for yourself and tell your opinion, graphics and questions on the material in this video at the very end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCn3LkMqG5A
I watched that video where Menno was asked about core material.
Of course he does not tell.....but instead, he tells that he asked the German company Thyssen Krupp for their best samples of core materials, and he selected what he found was best.
My guess is that Plitron use Power Core H, which seems to be a high quality HiB silicon steel, available in different thickness.
Of course he does not tell.....but instead, he tells that he asked the German company Thyssen Krupp for their best samples of core materials, and he selected what he found was best.
My guess is that Plitron use Power Core H, which seems to be a high quality HiB silicon steel, available in different thickness.
I'll tell you again that the prices for Amplimo and Plitron are very different. And what's the point of hiding it if everything is already written on the Plitron website? And why do they (Plitron) not hide but he alone? He says in the video that the material can work up to 2 MHz. Do you know such HiB silicon steel? But I know for sure that such a magnetic circuit will be wound from a tape with a thickness of about 20-30 microns, and this is just an amorphous or nanocrystalline alloy, which, by the way, is also called steel, at least for Russian steelmakers.
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No audio transformers to be seen on Amplimo website, let alone prices.
Plitron specifies (you can check it on their site) HiB silicon steel.
I don't know of any material used in audio transformers which can work up to 2 MHz through the material, so inductively. Menno clearly "overrules" the audience there, and the expression of disbelief is clearly to be seen on the face of the guy who asked the question.
In that frequency range transfer is by capacitance.
Plitron specifies (you can check it on their site) HiB silicon steel.
I don't know of any material used in audio transformers which can work up to 2 MHz through the material, so inductively. Menno clearly "overrules" the audience there, and the expression of disbelief is clearly to be seen on the face of the guy who asked the question.
In that frequency range transfer is by capacitance.
Plitron and Amplimo are different manufacturers of one located in Canada the other in Holland. Both produced transformers for audio and collaborated with Menno and you know it yourself. I'm in this topic too long since 1995g. And he himself indirectly observed how progress was developing in this cooperation, and then regress began at these enterprises in this area. For example, 10 years ago the Amplimo site had a huge range of output transformers and they differed significantly in design from the Plitron transformers. There were also prices there, and the difference in price was also significant. Also I noticed that the Plitron site had a lot of different material from the press on audio transformers. Mostly these were cuttings from a flock in audio magazines, where the diagrams mentioned Transformers of the production of Plitron. Apparently they were sponsors of these authors. However, even there the situation changed and most of the articles on the Plitron site disappeared. Apparently things in the part of output transformers are not so good at both firms, since only regression comes. Not just because Menno then went even to Belgrade, and acted there almost like a crafty gypsy, and you also saw it on video. But I know and Serbs, I worked in a very large Serbian holding, connected with energy in Russia, it's not such a simple people. And they probably will not cooperate with Menno because they do not need to produce on a scale like he wants and share profits with him. They have enough of their production volume and they, too, the producers of output toroidal transformers were also without Menno before. And they are very good engineers and they have a lot of patents in this area of building unique transformers and energy fields. One name of their compatriot Nikola Tesla, whose monument stands even in our city in Russia at the office of their head holding company adds to them a strong spirit. You mentioned many countries but not Russia. I'll tell you that in Russia there are a lot of manufacturers of amorphous and mainly nanocrystalline alloys that have been producing them since the times of the USSR.
Some large enterprises now belong to Korean shareholders and probably from other countries too. And a very significant volume of products is sold abroad.
So, even in the Soviet patents that I studied, in terminology or on slang, if you want metallurgists all these amorphous alloys and HI-B too, they were often referred to as steel. Note that by definition, steel is an alloy of iron primarily with carbon, and only then with other alloying elements. And there is no carbon in HI-B and amorphous alloys, as it is harmful there, and worsens the magnetic softness or permeability. Nevertheless, metallurgists call it steel, and Menno, apparently, in dealing with metallurgists from Krupp, seems to have adopted only this terminology and also, calls amorphous steel alloy, for camouflage during presentation. It turns out that he does not lie when he says that he uses steel. But the presentation shows that he compares the graphs of the permeability of his steel with some cheap, and it becomes clear that he compares the amorphous alloy with silicon steel type M6 or HI-B.
As for the band often up to 2MHz, which he mentioned at the presentation. Yes, maybe he lied a little, but most likely is also analogous to the case with the terminology about steel, he did not deceive here. Since permeability in magnetic materials at such a frequency is specified by losses. And no signal transmission by capacitance will transmit power, especially in the presence of huge losses like those of silicone steels at this frequency.
Some large enterprises now belong to Korean shareholders and probably from other countries too. And a very significant volume of products is sold abroad.
So, even in the Soviet patents that I studied, in terminology or on slang, if you want metallurgists all these amorphous alloys and HI-B too, they were often referred to as steel. Note that by definition, steel is an alloy of iron primarily with carbon, and only then with other alloying elements. And there is no carbon in HI-B and amorphous alloys, as it is harmful there, and worsens the magnetic softness or permeability. Nevertheless, metallurgists call it steel, and Menno, apparently, in dealing with metallurgists from Krupp, seems to have adopted only this terminology and also, calls amorphous steel alloy, for camouflage during presentation. It turns out that he does not lie when he says that he uses steel. But the presentation shows that he compares the graphs of the permeability of his steel with some cheap, and it becomes clear that he compares the amorphous alloy with silicon steel type M6 or HI-B.
As for the band often up to 2MHz, which he mentioned at the presentation. Yes, maybe he lied a little, but most likely is also analogous to the case with the terminology about steel, he did not deceive here. Since permeability in magnetic materials at such a frequency is specified by losses. And no signal transmission by capacitance will transmit power, especially in the presence of huge losses like those of silicone steels at this frequency.
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