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 Tubes / Valves All about our sweet vacuum tubes :) Threads about Musical Instrument Amps of all kinds should be in the Instruments & Amps forum

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 28th August 2014, 09:17 AM #541 RajkoM   diyAudio Member     Join Date: Feb 2009 EL84 UL curves Does anyone have Ultralinear curves for EL84. Or maybe a model.
 28th August 2014, 02:12 PM #542 jazbo8 diyAudio Moderator     Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: In Transient Just the pentode model, but you can use it with an UL OPT or VCVS to get the UL curves. Code: ```* * Generic pentode model: EL84_AN * Copyright 2003--2008 by Ayumi Nakabayashi, All rights reserved. * Version 3.10, Generated on Wed Feb 12 10:18:18 2014 * Plate * | Screen Grid * | | Control Grid * | | | Cathode * | | | | .SUBCKT EL84_AN A G2 G1 K BGG GG 0 V=V(G1,K)+0.03372597 BM1 M1 0 V=(0.014266539*(URAMP(V(G2,K))+1e-10))**-0.43210132 BM2 M2 0 V=(0.7763568*(URAMP(V(GG)+URAMP(V(G2,K))/15.676066)))**1.9321013 BP P 0 V=0.0040800354*(URAMP(V(GG)+URAMP(V(G2,K))/20.191832))**1.5 BIK IK 0 V=U(V(GG))*V(P)+(1-U(V(GG)))*0.0023829269*V(M1)*V(M2) BIG IG 0 V=0.0020400177*URAMP(V(G1,K))**1.5*(URAMP(V(G1,K))/(URAMP(V(A,K))+URAMP(V(G1,K)))*1.2+0.4) BIK2 IK2 0 V=V(IK,IG)*(1-0.4*(EXP(-URAMP(V(A,K))/URAMP(V(G2,K))*15)-EXP(-15))) BIG2T IG2T 0 V=V(IK2)*(0.904015183*(1-URAMP(V(A,K))/(URAMP(V(A,K))+10))**1.5+0.095984817) BIK3 IK3 0 V=V(IK2)*(URAMP(V(A,K))+2486)/(URAMP(V(G2,K))+2486) BIK4 IK4 0 V=V(IK3)-URAMP(V(IK3)-(0.0023468355*(URAMP(V(A,K))+URAMP(URAMP(V(G2,K))-URAMP(V(A,K))))**1.5)) BIP IP 0 V=URAMP(V(IK4,IG2T)-URAMP(V(IK4,IG2T)-(0.0023468355*URAMP(V(A,K))**1.5))) BIAK A K I=V(IP)+1e-10*V(A,K) BIG2 G2 K I=URAMP(V(IK4,IP)) BIGK G1 K I=V(IG) * CAPS CGA G1 A 0.5p CGK G1 K 6.6p C12 G1 G2 4.4p CAK A K 6.5p .ENDS```
RajkoM
diyAudio Member

Join Date: Feb 2009
Thank jazbo8.
Yes, I'm doing something with Ayumi model but the results are too good. I can not believe it :-)
I'm trying to simulate a small amp. I need something for the weekend listening.
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fireworks
diyAudio Member

Join Date: Feb 2010
Quote:
 Originally Posted by cogsncogs Yes... use the "xxx.inc" files in LTspice.
Thanks, that's what I found too.

Let it be known to others that need to use the Ayumi models in LTSpice that they need to replace all "^" by "**" in all the ".inc" files. The ".mod" files are not to be used.

 31st August 2014, 01:44 PM #545 mogliaa   diyAudio Member     Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: London hi all, Here are some models I developed with ExtractModel for the 6P21S tetrode with some feedback from Derk regarding issues on the tool which fixed yesterday. 6P21S tetrode curves and model | Bartola Valves There is also a quick test of the Schade feedback trace mode which I insisted Ronald for quite a while and helped implementing Cheers Ale __________________ "A mistake is always forgivable, rarely excusable and always unacceptable. " (Robert Fripp) http://www.bartola.co.uk/valves/
jazbo8
diyAudio Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: In Transient
Quote:
 Originally Posted by mogliaa hi all, Here are some models I developed with ExtractModel for the 6P21S tetrode
The model generated curves do not match up with the datasheet when Eg2=200V. Shouldn't the model itself scale up/down when different Eg2 is applied?

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Last edited by jazbo8; 1st September 2014 at 06:57 AM.

 1st September 2014, 07:42 AM #547 mogliaa   diyAudio Member     Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: London Jaz, the model matches the curves traced. I have several 6P21S around but didn't pay too much attention on the sample variance. The model scales up/down with different Ug2, see the other graphs at different Ug2 (i.e. model versus traced): Ale __________________ "A mistake is always forgivable, rarely excusable and always unacceptable. " (Robert Fripp) http://www.bartola.co.uk/valves/ Last edited by mogliaa; 1st September 2014 at 07:43 AM. Reason: added image
jazbo8
diyAudio Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: In Transient
Quote:
 Originally Posted by mogliaa The model scales up/down with different Ug2, see the other graphs at different Ug2 (i.e. model versus traced): Ale
Like you said, it could be just due to the wide sample variance... I have asked about this before, but shouldn't the traced models be re-adjusted to matched the commonly available datasheets, i.e., a "bogey" tube? Otherwise, we run the risk of having a bunch of "one-off" models, which may cause some confusion for those that aren't aware of the origins of those models. Sorry to sound like a broken record...

Last edited by jazbo8; 1st September 2014 at 09:45 AM.

 1st September 2014, 09:58 AM #549 mogliaa   diyAudio Member     Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: London I should have aimed to find a valve that matched closer to the datasheet. I may do that and rerun in future but don't have too much time unfortunately. At least here is a model that is within the specs. I'm fine with the variance and can work with this on my simulations __________________ "A mistake is always forgivable, rarely excusable and always unacceptable. " (Robert Fripp) http://www.bartola.co.uk/valves/
jazbo8
diyAudio Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: In Transient
Quote:
 Originally Posted by mogliaa I should have aimed to find a valve that matched closer to the datasheet. I may do that and rerun in future but don't have too much time unfortunately. At least here is a model that is within the specs. I'm fine with the variance and can work with this on my simulations
I think a built-in "fudge" factor in Extract Model would do the trick, i.e., trace any tube on hand, then bring the model in line with the datasheet "bogey" with a bit of fudging et voila, you got a well matched model...

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