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Vacuum Tube SPICE Models
Vacuum Tube SPICE Models
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Old 18th January 2019, 12:20 PM   #1901
jazbo8 is offline jazbo8
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Vacuum Tube SPICE Models
The pentode parameters are covered here: Improved vacuum tube models for SPICE, Part 1. And the only way to generate the Derk models is by actually tracing the tubes using uTracer.
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Old 20th January 2019, 11:33 AM   #1902
victordascalescu54 is offline victordascalescu54  Romania
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Hi, I am working to a ccs using a pentode 6J1b-V.
There is any model available?
Thanks in advance
Victor
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Old 20th January 2019, 11:42 AM   #1903
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Vacuum Tube SPICE Models
See Vacuum Tube SPICE Models
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Old 20th January 2019, 11:53 AM   #1904
victordascalescu54 is offline victordascalescu54  Romania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazbo8 View Post
Perfect, thank you verry much
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Old 23rd January 2019, 06:36 PM   #1905
bea is offline bea  Germany
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Default Ayumi vs. (modified) Koren model for power pentodes

Hello,

in the example below You see a stage with two 6L6GC in push pull. The upper tube is modeled using the Ayumi model, the lower tube is done using a Koren model modified with -Tracer data. Only .OP analysis is done. Please note the voltage directly at G2: at least in the .OP simulation there is obviously no G2 current or an extremely small one with the Koren type model.

The .TRAN simulation does, however, show at least roughly plausible values of G2 if You check them with .MEAS commands.

So far, so good. Unfortunately the Ayumi models are computionally extremely expensive and can therefore not be used in general design work, but just "as the last step".

So there is the question if there exist other computationally lightweight models which come a bit closer to reality than the (otherwise useful) Koren models?
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Old 23rd January 2019, 07:16 PM   #1906
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Vacuum Tube SPICE Models
Quote:
Originally Posted by bea View Post
Unfortunately the Ayumi models are computionally extremely expensive and can therefore not be used in general design work, but just "as the last step".
Why is that the case? Many members have used the Ayumi pentode models without issue, and would find your experience quite perplexing...
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Old 23rd January 2019, 07:33 PM   #1907
bea is offline bea  Germany
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Well the Ayumi model seems good, except of the computational effort. The Koren model is the problem.

And what takes seconds with the Koren model might take minutes using Ayumi model (-> LTSPICE OSX), especially if i run the model close to the clipping point.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 08:54 PM   #1908
Adrian Immler is offline Adrian Immler  Switzerland
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Hi Bea

Nice to meet you again, for this time on the diyaudio site ;-)
You now, Norman Koren did not spent much effort to model accurate grid currents...
Why not try the Duncan Munro model? It is also fast (as it was also developed in the past century with its slow clocked computers), and (more or less) accurate grid currents was a high priority goal for Duncan.

Pentodes

all the best, Adrian

P.S: Be aware that the Ayumi models deliver a better overall fit quality!
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Old 23rd January 2019, 09:32 PM   #1909
bea is offline bea  Germany
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Hello Adrian,

thanks! Of course i am aware that the Ayumi models are good fit quality. But the can be annoying, especially if You want to do fine tuning by trial and error. (And i've observed occasional convergence problems using the Derk models i have also tried out.) BTW
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Old 24th January 2019, 06:05 AM   #1910
Adrian Immler is offline Adrian Immler  Switzerland
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Hi Bea
Occasional convergence problems of Derk models may have the root cause in the fact that they are able to mimic secondary emission effects. That means that there are probably negative differential resistances, introducing a risk for oscillations in real life or convergence problems in simulations.
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