Why not just buy some "real" RCA 2A3's?
I have a few dozen RCA JAN 2A3's that I bought 30 years ago when they were much, much, less expensive ($10-$15 each). I use them single ended, PP, PPP and in a few custom built guitar amps.
My tweeter amps are clones of the Fi 2A3 amps and the 1930's-40's RCA's sound great in them. The Sylvania and Kenrad's are also really good.
I have a pair of single plate 2A3's that I try out every once in a while; in the tweeter amp they sound about the same as the dual plates.
I've had some unhappy, 4TH of July type of experiences with Chinese tubes, but in all fairness that was quite a few years ago, so they may well be more reliable then the ones I had.
It seems to me that you can probably get two pairs of RCA's (or Sylvania or Ken-Rads) and have change left over as opposed to the price of the PSVanes. Raytheon made a beautiful dual box plate 2A3 you may want to try. I haven't listened to them in years, so I can't speak about their sound in comparison to others. I can say that they also sounded great.
As J-ROB once said, I've never met a 2A3 I didn't like.
Did everyone in China once work for Shugang?
I don't think that the PSVanes have much in common with the RCA's beyond having four pins. Have they published curves for them?
DrRick
I have a few dozen RCA JAN 2A3's that I bought 30 years ago when they were much, much, less expensive ($10-$15 each). I use them single ended, PP, PPP and in a few custom built guitar amps.
My tweeter amps are clones of the Fi 2A3 amps and the 1930's-40's RCA's sound great in them. The Sylvania and Kenrad's are also really good.
I have a pair of single plate 2A3's that I try out every once in a while; in the tweeter amp they sound about the same as the dual plates.
I've had some unhappy, 4TH of July type of experiences with Chinese tubes, but in all fairness that was quite a few years ago, so they may well be more reliable then the ones I had.
It seems to me that you can probably get two pairs of RCA's (or Sylvania or Ken-Rads) and have change left over as opposed to the price of the PSVanes. Raytheon made a beautiful dual box plate 2A3 you may want to try. I haven't listened to them in years, so I can't speak about their sound in comparison to others. I can say that they also sounded great.
As J-ROB once said, I've never met a 2A3 I didn't like.
Did everyone in China once work for Shugang?
I don't think that the PSVanes have much in common with the RCA's beyond having four pins. Have they published curves for them?
DrRick
An update.
I just tried their entry-level Psvane 2A3B ($100/pair shipped) for the past week and they sound really nice! My JJ 2A3-40 was my previous reference, but with a 6C45P driver tube (@35mA) and SS rectification, it sounded a bit edgy and sibilant on vocals, similar to my SS amps. The Psvane 2A3B sounds very similar overall to the JJ, but without this edginess. It's now my favorite 2A3.
I am running it at 375V 65mA, but I've tried traditional 2A3 operating point at 275V and it sounds good also. It uses a standard 300B nickel plate but slightly shorter, still it has 95% of the surface area of 300B.
It's a great tube. I wouldn't be surprised if Psvane's entry-level 2A3 sounds better than their "replica" version.
I just tried their entry-level Psvane 2A3B ($100/pair shipped) for the past week and they sound really nice! My JJ 2A3-40 was my previous reference, but with a 6C45P driver tube (@35mA) and SS rectification, it sounded a bit edgy and sibilant on vocals, similar to my SS amps. The Psvane 2A3B sounds very similar overall to the JJ, but without this edginess. It's now my favorite 2A3.
I am running it at 375V 65mA, but I've tried traditional 2A3 operating point at 275V and it sounds good also. It uses a standard 300B nickel plate but slightly shorter, still it has 95% of the surface area of 300B.
It's a great tube. I wouldn't be surprised if Psvane's entry-level 2A3 sounds better than their "replica" version.
Emission Labs.
Personally I would not buy any expensive 2A3. Good Chinese replicas of the double plate like Golden Dragon and Billington gold work fine and they also have gold plated grid.
If money doesn't matter then I would buy the Emission Labs AD1 Mesh.
2A3
Whatever the Chinese say I have real difficulty believing any of their hype....... sorry they seem to use the same structure for a number of their Valves (Tubes), with a few tweaks to make them look just that little bit different. A case in point is their version of the 6L6, (in some cases) it has the same internals as the EL34, 5881, 7027A, and I have seen a KT66 with the same insides. Instead of issuing a different tube every month they should divert their efforts into their Q & Q.......... which has got better over the years but it has a Loooooong way to go to catch up on the NOS tubes
Whatever the Chinese say I have real difficulty believing any of their hype....... sorry they seem to use the same structure for a number of their Valves (Tubes), with a few tweaks to make them look just that little bit different. A case in point is their version of the 6L6, (in some cases) it has the same internals as the EL34, 5881, 7027A, and I have seen a KT66 with the same insides. Instead of issuing a different tube every month they should divert their efforts into their Q & Q.......... which has got better over the years but it has a Loooooong way to go to catch up on the NOS tubes
If you buy them from the official shop I don't think you are going to have any surprise. They can test e select them as you wish and perform just as the NOS.
If you buy them from "unknown" sources then it could be that some tubes simply don't have enough emission. This is the only issue Chinese 2A3 double-plate can have (poor filament emission) and is a consequence of nowadays mass production.
If you want high quality tubes then forget Chinese tubes in general. Emission Labs are high quality tube by modern standards. They are better quality than NOS now they have sorted initial issues you always have with new production.
Some first hand experiences with 2A3's
First of all, please allow me to put my cards on the table, i co-own AA-Acoustics.com and we are the only re-seller of Psvane valves here in the UK since 2011, we also sell TJ Full Music products and have been selling those since 2004.
I use a pair of Consonance Cyber 2A3 PSE monoblocks daily in my main system with a Modwright LS100 pre-amp.
These amps were supplied with Shuguang 2A3C that are pretty good and a step up from the Sovtek staple diet that are better than the more expensive EH Gold version [IMHO] , the next contender were the Psvane "HiFi Series" 2A3 and much smaller physically than the Shugs had better all round tone to my ears and if price is a limiting factor these would be the first choice for many, next up were the TJ meshplates [Globe version-preferred to the bottle shape as less sibilant], these are great tubes but in my system are a bit too bright and bass light, but the midrange is simply superb!, next up were the Shuguang "Treasure Series", after quite a lengthy burn in these went straight to the top of the list, similar midband to the TJ but much fuller sounding especially in the bass, i used these for about two years before the Psvane "T Series" were released so they were put in for the burn in, this takes some 300 hours and i needed an A-B comparison with the Treasures after it, but the Psvanes were the icing on the cake for me, they seemed to do everything that the Treasure did but slightly more incisively and i forgot about the hifi and just listened to the music, for the past 2 months i've been listening to the Psvane WR2A3 replica's, these sound more like a 2.5v 300B to my ears and are allegedly a hybrid design of the RCA2A3 and WE 300B, i do have several vintage 2A3's from RCA/Sylvania/Raytheon and these don't look like any of them, i cant help but feel that the factory have missed a golden opportunity to recreate the classic Cunningham monoplate here, these are probably very system and taste dependant, but for my ears the vote goes to the Psvane T's, i have not tried the JJ's or the KR's, but the Psvane T 211 bettered the KR 211 in a 211 shootout with a few pairs of ears present.
Yesterday i put in a pair of TJ solid plate 274B [Globe version] rectifiers in and so far they eclipse the Psvane hifi version and the "Potato Masher" 5R4WGB, but early days yet!
Just to clear up any confusion about Chinese manufacturers, there are only 2 in existence, TJ Full Music in Tianjin [hence TJ], they also manufacture the Sophia brand, and Shuguang in south China, this company also control the old Guiguang factory that are responsible for the Psvane range and are made on different machinery from the main factory, we also buy the "Treasure Series" from them directly into the UK , there does seem to be quite a lot of confusion mostly brought about by conflicting grammar used on various websites about Chinese valves, but i have found them to be pretty reliable, unlike some European and Russian offerings, but there is no such thing as a 100% reliable production no matter how much care is taken in production, anything i can help with, please ask.Ian
First of all, please allow me to put my cards on the table, i co-own AA-Acoustics.com and we are the only re-seller of Psvane valves here in the UK since 2011, we also sell TJ Full Music products and have been selling those since 2004.
I use a pair of Consonance Cyber 2A3 PSE monoblocks daily in my main system with a Modwright LS100 pre-amp.
These amps were supplied with Shuguang 2A3C that are pretty good and a step up from the Sovtek staple diet that are better than the more expensive EH Gold version [IMHO] , the next contender were the Psvane "HiFi Series" 2A3 and much smaller physically than the Shugs had better all round tone to my ears and if price is a limiting factor these would be the first choice for many, next up were the TJ meshplates [Globe version-preferred to the bottle shape as less sibilant], these are great tubes but in my system are a bit too bright and bass light, but the midrange is simply superb!, next up were the Shuguang "Treasure Series", after quite a lengthy burn in these went straight to the top of the list, similar midband to the TJ but much fuller sounding especially in the bass, i used these for about two years before the Psvane "T Series" were released so they were put in for the burn in, this takes some 300 hours and i needed an A-B comparison with the Treasures after it, but the Psvanes were the icing on the cake for me, they seemed to do everything that the Treasure did but slightly more incisively and i forgot about the hifi and just listened to the music, for the past 2 months i've been listening to the Psvane WR2A3 replica's, these sound more like a 2.5v 300B to my ears and are allegedly a hybrid design of the RCA2A3 and WE 300B, i do have several vintage 2A3's from RCA/Sylvania/Raytheon and these don't look like any of them, i cant help but feel that the factory have missed a golden opportunity to recreate the classic Cunningham monoplate here, these are probably very system and taste dependant, but for my ears the vote goes to the Psvane T's, i have not tried the JJ's or the KR's, but the Psvane T 211 bettered the KR 211 in a 211 shootout with a few pairs of ears present.
Yesterday i put in a pair of TJ solid plate 274B [Globe version] rectifiers in and so far they eclipse the Psvane hifi version and the "Potato Masher" 5R4WGB, but early days yet!
Just to clear up any confusion about Chinese manufacturers, there are only 2 in existence, TJ Full Music in Tianjin [hence TJ], they also manufacture the Sophia brand, and Shuguang in south China, this company also control the old Guiguang factory that are responsible for the Psvane range and are made on different machinery from the main factory, we also buy the "Treasure Series" from them directly into the UK , there does seem to be quite a lot of confusion mostly brought about by conflicting grammar used on various websites about Chinese valves, but i have found them to be pretty reliable, unlike some European and Russian offerings, but there is no such thing as a 100% reliable production no matter how much care is taken in production, anything i can help with, please ask.Ian
Member
Joined 2012
You guys have been much luckier than I with Psvane tubes. I love the sound. I have tried the 2A3 MkII and WR2A3s. Beautiful sounding tubes but all end up developing low level noises easily audible with headphones. Ticking, irregular static sounds, little squealing noises and not all the time. But, I have returned tubes such that I have had, in hand, 9 Psvane tubes. They ALL ended up developing similar noises. Some within a few hours, some after 50-100 hrs. I would suspect my amp (DNA Stratus) and even it scoped out to be sure. But no other tubes develop these problems - only Psvanes. I have NOS RCAs, EML meshplates, NOS Sylvania, Shuguang 2A3B and Nature Sound- all are beautifully quiet.
Here's how much I like the Psvane sound - I could have returned the WR2A3s for a full refund ($400) but I chose to keep them so I could enjoy those moments when they aren't making these annoying noises. But those moments don't last long.
Here's how much I like the Psvane sound - I could have returned the WR2A3s for a full refund ($400) but I chose to keep them so I could enjoy those moments when they aren't making these annoying noises. But those moments don't last long.
I have just burnt in my pair of WR2a3 for around 60 hours, I think the sound is quite good. The sound is quite similiar to the Black glass Kenrad 2a3, very good on instrumental music, the vocal is quite forward and is a touch grainy when compare with my RCA 2a3 BP with spring filament. Good soundstage and good details.
With good condition Vintage 2a3 harder to find, I think the WR2a3 is a good choice to have.
With good condition Vintage 2a3 harder to find, I think the WR2a3 is a good choice to have.
With "burn in" you mean you heated them for enough time for the emission to stabilise? This took 60 hours?
May I ask if you measured the current these three makes of 2A3 draw?
Thanks!
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
I often wonder,
If a tube fails to meet spec is it re-labelled as a super version of another tube
AKA 300B fails 300B and becomes a super 2a3 or a 6L6 fails and becomes a super 6V6 etc...
The 5881 was regarded in the 80's as an upgrade for EL34...I think we will have to be satisfied in the future with what we can get..if anything!
In the 80's I bought some large versions of the EL34 from Golden dragon and they flashed over and failed one after another..8 in total
I tried their 6L6 and KT66 and I still have them running..so there you go!
I have some old CVC (chelmer valve) and they sound better than Mullard EL34.
Regards
M. Gregg
If a tube fails to meet spec is it re-labelled as a super version of another tube
AKA 300B fails 300B and becomes a super 2a3 or a 6L6 fails and becomes a super 6V6 etc...
The 5881 was regarded in the 80's as an upgrade for EL34...I think we will have to be satisfied in the future with what we can get..if anything!
In the 80's I bought some large versions of the EL34 from Golden dragon and they flashed over and failed one after another..8 in total
I tried their 6L6 and KT66 and I still have them running..so there you go!
I have some old CVC (chelmer valve) and they sound better than Mullard EL34.
Regards
M. Gregg
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Yes,the burn in is for the emission to stablize, and for the sound to open up. According to the manufacturing sec, it is same as 2a3. Now after 100 hours, my impression as follow:
Roll off a bit at the top, good bass and musicality, decent image and definition, slightly grainy with the vocal.
How good is it? That is really depended on your system circuit and what are you comparing with ! eg. I am using Single plate 2a3, Double Plate springtop and the early black glass Bi-mono Plate 2a3, all these tubes are the best of the vintage 2a3, therefore I don't think the WR2a3 is comparable. However if you are using Grey Plate, especially the late production and the current production 2a3 of modern brands, you will be susprise with the WR2a3 sound.
Nonetheless I think the WR2a3 has a touch of vintage tube sound, unlike the KR 2a3 which is more HiFi sounding. It doesn't have the vintage Western Electric sound, nor the RCA sonic, the sound is closer to National Union.
Unless you have pile of NOS 2a3 stocking away, you can consider to try it.
Roll off a bit at the top, good bass and musicality, decent image and definition, slightly grainy with the vocal.
How good is it? That is really depended on your system circuit and what are you comparing with ! eg. I am using Single plate 2a3, Double Plate springtop and the early black glass Bi-mono Plate 2a3, all these tubes are the best of the vintage 2a3, therefore I don't think the WR2a3 is comparable. However if you are using Grey Plate, especially the late production and the current production 2a3 of modern brands, you will be susprise with the WR2a3 sound.
Nonetheless I think the WR2a3 has a touch of vintage tube sound, unlike the KR 2a3 which is more HiFi sounding. It doesn't have the vintage Western Electric sound, nor the RCA sonic, the sound is closer to National Union.
Unless you have pile of NOS 2a3 stocking away, you can consider to try it.
Hi! I didn't get that correctly. Are you saying that the emission of the Psvane WR2A3 is the same as that of a 2A3? That statement confuses me a bit as in my experience every tube (not type of tube, but actual single tube) has slightly different emission and therefore draws different current in the same circuit. That's what matching pairs is about, finding two that draw the same current.
When using old tubes (nos or used) it usually takes a few hours for the current draw to not change anymore.
That was also the reason why I asked if you measured the bias of the tubes when comparing them and checking the plate curves to see where you are. Otherwise you might not only compare different construction but also different operating points.
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