Trying to stall.
I'm asking you same questions I have been since post #44 except I'm making it more specific because you kept dodging them. I've been giving you the benefit of the doubt but now it is clear that you haven't done a listening comparisons that can produce meaningful results to reference to and you know it and trying to hide it. Accurate sound eh?
In your own universe perhaps.
Trying to stall.
Accurate sound eh?
I provided information in multiple posts but you don't like post #56 that relagates your "science", position, questions as worthless.
Folks, Evenharmonics refuses the address the post because it demolishes his entire basis for argument.
There will be no more replies until you address post #56 Evenharmonics. ("even
harmonics applies to SETs, if one doesn't know by now.)
Cheers.
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It seems Mr Positron, You appear very confrontational without backing up your statements..... Are you what they call a 'troll'?
--Lets have a look at this wizzo 200V P-P 0.05% dist. driver of yours, or is this a case of 'mine is bigger than yours' and you're gonna hide behind 'intelectual-property?.......
As to comments about OTL's being bass light--I'm getting the impression that you have never listened to one playing--or at least, Not a competantly made one!
--You're welcome to listen to mine anytime--if you are ever in the area and I'll dispel that myth in your head!
You asked 4 questions in post #56 so here goes.
Very accurate up to 4 seconds.
Laboratory condition set up for aural testing.
Terry Clark (1987) Echoic Memory Explored And Applied
Gabriel Radvansky (2005). Human Memory.
My reply was, "Then I asked to see if the listening comaprisons you've done were objective or just casual subjective observation which is useless due to its lack of personal bias control and limitations of aural memory span." If your comparison rig was set up in a way that those aspects are not factors, then you wouldn't need to ask such questions. The reason why you did is because you didn't account for those factors.
You brought up a bogus claim that SS designs can be over bassed and I tried to correct your error. If you don't want to talk about SS design, blame yourself.
Now, as for non-question parts,
They are not out of context because the readers can click on the view post symbol (box with arrow) which takes them to the entire post. The partial quote works like a headline if you understand the concept.
I never said SET amp is better than an OTL or PP amp. I never disagreed that PP amps can sound better than SETs.
But you stated:
Post #22:
tubela.com's reply: "Is there an amp that does both perfectly.....I don't know, I haven't found it yet."
My reply to him: "But the listeners can set it up so that they get the best of both worlds. Active-biamp (SE for high & mid, P-P for low)."
Not only you couldn't quote me doing what you accuse me of doing, you have a reading comprehension problem. You obviously didn't understand what getting the best of both worlds means so you need to study up.
And here's more for your study list.
High fidelity
Acoustic Basics
EvenHarmonics and Positron you are dragging this thread way off topic. If you wish to continue the debate, either do so offline, or in a dedicated thread. I can split the posts if you wish. If you do not want to continue the debate I will simply cull the posts.
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
A second thread has already been started to continue the original technical discussion. It might be worth splitting off the original technical discussion and moving it there, but the posters are already on track.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/217493-dual-se-amplifier-not-pse-take-two.html
I choose to participate in the technical discussion (the other thread) since I have been an engineer in the RF communications industry for 40 years and that's what I do best. Anyone can argue about details.
I have used (and still have) a tri-amped system. I have an active sub that contains a SS amp and an equalized 10 inch speaker. A 15 inch sub with a 300 watt plate amp is under construction. I have used various combinations of amps for the mid and high frequency amps.
I still find an SE amp connected to the 88db Yamaha NS-10's plugged right into the computer (I ripped all my CD's to WAV) used most often. Sometimes I use a 15 WPC P-P amp for dynamic music.
I have actually spent some time recording and attempting to reproduce live music in a reasonably realistic manner. Granted this was 10 to 15 years ago, and the conditions were not controlled recording studio quality.
My daughter played in the high school band, and several short lived "musical creation teams". She taught in a music school after high school and the setup remained until most of the other kids had left for college and my daughter got married.
We had a fair sized room with a full drum cage, two keyboards, several guitars and whatever musical weapons the kids brought over to play (even a tuba). I had a Teac 3340 multi track for them to play with, but all of my experiments were digital. I believe most of my experiments were 20 bit 44.1 KHz, which was state of the art at the time. I switched to 24/96 when it became available. Cakewalk Pro Audio or Sonar was used for recording into the PC through a Mackie mixer. Several setups were used for playback, but usually I ran a single amplifier through Yamaha NS-10M Studio monitors.
I learned quite a bit during this 4 year period. Most recordings were individually miked, but due to the lack of good microphones and PC recording channels, only one instrument or vocal was concentrated on at a time.
Technically, ALL amplifiers, speakers, and microphones add some "color" to the music since nothing is distortion free. Yes, most SE amps add more "color" to the music than other amps due to the higher second harmonic content. I found another significant coloration in an SE amp that is not often discussed.
I found that a recording of a single instrument is the easiest to reproduce. Vocals, guitars, especially a miked acoustic, piano, and most instruments with a reasonable dynamic range and limited harmonic sprctrum are easy to get right and it is not always easy to distinguish the difference between different amps used in playback provided none are operated near clipping on peaks.
Drums, and other highly percussive instruments are a different story. The hardest thing to accurately reproduce is a snare drum. Cymbals and the crack of a drum stick hitting the rim of a snare are right up there too.
Here, there is an obvious difference in the sound depending on the absolute polarity of the signal through the system with an SE amp that doesn't happen on a P-P amp. To get the most realistic reproduction of the initial transient attack the signal polarity must be such that the speaker cone is being pushed toward the listener when the stick hits the drum head.
On an SE amp the output tube must be pushed harder into conduction (plate voltage going down) when the stick hits the drum head, otherwize the transient dynamics are blunted. This becomes more apparent with larger OPT's, and is also dependent on the speaker being used.
There are probably a lot more variables that I never found, or have forgotten. The early sessions were quite productive, but in the later years I spent a lot of my time hot rodding and building a lot of guitar amps. This started when I let one of the kids play my Turbo Champ instead of his solid state Peavey. The TC is a SE tube amp by the way, and no, guitar amps are NOT intended to be "accurate".
First, a scientific rule is that performing a test must match the proper conditions. So does performing an dbt/abx test equate to a typical auditioning of a component? If it does not, the dbt/abx test is worthless. If it does, then it is scientific for that condition.
When a dbt test is performed, the total A and Bs are tallied and confidence is calculated. Checking sites/posts, everyone emphasizes the total score and confidence, not how the total score was arrived at, the procedures. Let's assume 4 seconds.
We begin our first 10 in a row ABs (of maybe 5 sets). But after 4 seconds, one does not remember accurately, memory fades, so it becomes a coin toss which is A and which is B. The total score skews towards 50/50. Under these conditions, which is typical for dbt/abx tests, the test is skewed towards no sonic difference 100% of the time, resulting in erroneous information being touted as scientific fact.
A magician uses slight of hand, while some (not you Even) leave out critical information to push dbt/abx tests. Put the information together, and.... It is all about marketing to these "magicians".
Sigh, no. You did not present any evidence to dispute my claim. You also do not understand schematics nor design. This is not an attack, as many don't understand design. So how do you condemn something you do not understand?
Best of both worlds implies the SET is better at midrange. But it is your continual negative responses to my comment PP can sound better than SE is what leads me to believe that you consider SE as always better. However, I will accept your latest statement that PP can sound better than SETs. Is that OK?
Let's just say I would not give alot of credence to those links, for various reasons, including Federal Investigators. I would go to better sources for information.
Many have been seduced by those claiming science, but check and you will find those pushing dbts are usually employers or employees. It is all about marketing, with $4.5 billion on the line.
Cheers.
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Obviously, you don't know much about dbt/abx of amps.
Do you like switcher?
Given your lack of understanding on this subject, it's funny to see you writing what is or isn't about dbt/abx:
Scientific rule, eh? Do you have the name of the source?
I aske you which component (brand & model) you are basing your claim on so I can respond accordingly but you won't reveal it.
Please don't put words in my mouth. Keep rereading my reply to tubelab.com untill it becomes clearer because it still isn't to you.
Let's just say? Unsure of what you read but didn't like the way it looks because it dosen't massage your ego? Again, reread what's in those links for couple reasons, 1, there are lots of good info in those links and 2, it will become clearer to you. Those are too good of info to miss out.
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