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Tube Rectifiers do sound different
Tube Rectifiers do sound different
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Old 20th September 2018, 05:15 PM   #151
w5jag is offline w5jag  United States
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Quote:
Why no testing information?
I did find some notes with a GE 6AX5 and Bendix 5852 in the same SE amp, same conditions. The GE 6AX5's I use have 6087 guts, with a 6.3 volt heater. Both of these tubes would have been new. The 5852 is more like a 6X5 so not quite like comparing a 6106 and 6087. The 5852 put out 5 more volts than the 6AX5. The IMD difference at the speaker terminals was negligible.

What parameters would you suggest folks test for? In the above example, static loaded output voltage, and significant construction and material differences, arguably two separate tube types, made no difference to the meter.

I wish I had recorded the 6087 / 6106 measurements so that I would not have to rely on memory, but I could not find that I did.

Win W5JAG
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Old 20th September 2018, 06:28 PM   #152
indra1 is offline indra1  Indonesia
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Originally Posted by TonyTecson View Post
very interesting, care to elaborate?
We can select 2 rectifiers from different manufacturer to give same B+ at a certain circuit but will have different ripple amount showing slight difference in the internal dynamic resistance that will also affect transient behavior. The selected 2 rectifiers will give not so similar B+ on other circuits. Off course differences will stay within manufacturing tolerance of say 5% , on the other hand we have people claimed audibility on 0.1% electrically measured difference.

My point is when a difference is noted, more than likely that there is a measurable difference, but measuring only the B+ value may not be sufficient tell the whole story. W5JAG method of measuring IMD should shed more light. A full FFT and distortion residual waveform analysis will tell more.

I kind of suspect that many old timers in the know found that it is better for others to remain oblivious to the difference, keeps the price of the good ones more manageable.
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Old 20th September 2018, 08:24 PM   #153
TonyTecson is offline TonyTecson  Philippines
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Tube Rectifiers do sound different
but, but isn't ripple voltage a function of the filtering capacitors? and load currents?

do you have test setup/data that we can replicate?
being unable to quantify, then our claims becomes mere opinions....

i have no problem with anecdotes and opinions, i am not bothered....
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Old 20th September 2018, 08:27 PM   #154
TonyTecson is offline TonyTecson  Philippines
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Tube Rectifiers do sound different
Quote:
Originally Posted by famousmockingbird View Post
Exactly this!! These are my questions I am interested in quantifying.
yes, i want to see the data...
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Old 20th September 2018, 09:00 PM   #155
GoatGuy is offline GoatGuy  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyTecson View Post
but, but isn't ripple voltage a function of the filtering capacitors? and load currents?

do you have test setup/data that we can replicate?
being unable to quantify, then our claims becomes mere opinions....

i have no problem with anecdotes and opinions, i am not bothered....
Hence… to the question prior quote “different internal resistances, different transient response” (paraphrased), I can only say this: active regulation is a substantially “right” answer for most every of the suggested effects.

Absolute regulation (zeners, gas discharge tubes, etc) have the advantage of setting an operating point, and keeping it there with little regard to line voltage variation, swapping rectifiers, aging of them, out-of-spec (or spec variation) of the primary transformer. Regulation doesn't in its own right make up for transient response though. It just defines a kind of response which is generally quite decoupled from the "stuff before it" in circuit.

Relative regulation (voltage dividers and capacitor LPFs) can offer higher best-case downwind voltage, but relative to line voltage, and so on, maintaining a fixed margin (the voltage divider chain) for the amplifier's stages beyond.

BOTH kinds of regulation can markedly reduce one's expenditures on more expensive, larger value chokes (if you're inclined to use them) and filtering capacitors in larger sizes. I regularly get better than –40 dB of ripple reduction just from an active MOSFET series regulator of utterly simple (-minded?) design. This is not to say that the wonderful goodness of a nice choke in a CLC→regulator→C section isn't still warranted. It is.

Thing is tho', relative regulation WILL couple the rectifiers' idiosycracies to the rest of the circuit as bulk quiescent voltage differences. absolute regulation does not. Almost completely decouples the rectifier swapping and ageing differences over the useful life of the vacuum diodes.

Just saying.
Amazing what a few under-two-bucks-each parts will do.
Yet keep true to the underlying design theory of an amp.

GoatGuy
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Old 20th September 2018, 09:05 PM   #156
TonyTecson is offline TonyTecson  Philippines
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Tube Rectifiers do sound different
there are even those who have preference for sexy bottles....

anything ST......
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Old 20th September 2018, 09:21 PM   #157
soulmerchant is offline soulmerchant  Switzerland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyTecson View Post
as a builder of amps, my goal has always been to build them as best as i could from get go....

i will get depressed if by changing rectifiers my amp sounded better, that meant i did a lousy job building my amp...but this is just me.....

i have no problem with others stating their opinions, it doesn't bother me...

i go by what i have...
I must say that I agree 100% with this sentiment. But I would suggest that it is not in the build so much as the design...
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Old 20th September 2018, 09:37 PM   #158
TonyTecson is offline TonyTecson  Philippines
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Tube Rectifiers do sound different
yes, and one more thing, drawings are drawings....the finished amp is where the excitement is...

as Patrick Turner put it....."I can lend you my plans and drawings, but i am not sure how you would actually implement it".....
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Old 21st September 2018, 09:10 AM   #159
indra1 is offline indra1  Indonesia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyTecson View Post
but, but isn't ripple voltage a function of the filtering capacitors? and load currents?
I wish it was that simple.
Quote:
do you have test setup/data that we can replicate?...
It was not a test, I just remembered something while helping a friend build a simple 01A LC loaded preamp. The noted difference was between a big mesh AZ1 rectifier from Philips and a tall solid plate AZ1 TFK with CRC filter. B+ was measured at 207V and 209V, close enough for me to be called equal, but B+ showed ripple of 3.2 mV for the mesh against 1.8 mV for the solid plate. We then use brute force method and modify to a CLCRC filter to reduce ripple to < 0.5mV. At the finalized build, each rectifier produce subtle but distinct enough difference in presentation, but our curiosity level was not high enough to make further investigation nor measurement, the preamp sounded good enough for us as it was.

I know you have way more experience and better equipment than I do, perhaps you can share your thinking and findings you have noted?
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Old 21st September 2018, 09:14 AM   #160
TonyTecson is offline TonyTecson  Philippines
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Tube Rectifiers do sound different
if you want to know more this page by Patrick turner is real good to read....powersupplies
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