Have to agree with Kevin. I've built a couple of Aikidos and it's a good line stage IF you define "good" by "output replicates the input." That's not everyone's definition of "good."
IMO, it's a solid design, but gimmicky; I think the "gimmicky" is part of the attraction. Lower supply voltages degrade the performance noticeably. And you can achieve the same or better performance in a much simpler circuit. BUT... if your goal is something other than "output replicates the input," it's not a great choice. Too neutral.
I don't use it because I don't need the gain- I use a unity gain buffer- but other systems have different requirements than mine.
IMO, it's a solid design, but gimmicky; I think the "gimmicky" is part of the attraction. Lower supply voltages degrade the performance noticeably. And you can achieve the same or better performance in a much simpler circuit. BUT... if your goal is something other than "output replicates the input," it's not a great choice. Too neutral.
I don't use it because I don't need the gain- I use a unity gain buffer- but other systems have different requirements than mine.
quote:
Too neutral.
How can a line stage be too neutral? Isn't the goal to reproduce the signal without introducing unwanted influences?
I will admit that Franks 6SN7 line stage performance wise is close. I feel where the Aikido wins is in the decreased noise as a result of the circuit.
How can Kevin possibly have an opinion based on not having heard the Aikido?
You cannot IMHO look at a schematic and say it is too complex and unwarranted for example. Some will surprise you.
Too neutral.
How can a line stage be too neutral? Isn't the goal to reproduce the signal without introducing unwanted influences?
I will admit that Franks 6SN7 line stage performance wise is close. I feel where the Aikido wins is in the decreased noise as a result of the circuit.
How can Kevin possibly have an opinion based on not having heard the Aikido?
You cannot IMHO look at a schematic and say it is too complex and unwarranted for example. Some will surprise you.
This is interesting,
I have also noticed a difference with cathode follower and Aikido topologies!
The question as always comes down to what is neutral!
Is the signal down the cable neutral?
Does removing the loading of the cable or driving the cable alter the musical performance of the system.
I think the idea is to reproduce the source with accuracy trying to overcome the limitations of loading be this capacitive, inductive or resistive. If adding harmonics "puts something back" that has been taken from the source then it will seem "more real". This is taking into account Ty_Bower's comment what is the signal clapping against!
Regards
M. Gregg
I have also noticed a difference with cathode follower and Aikido topologies!
The question as always comes down to what is neutral!
Is the signal down the cable neutral?
Does removing the loading of the cable or driving the cable alter the musical performance of the system.
I think the idea is to reproduce the source with accuracy trying to overcome the limitations of loading be this capacitive, inductive or resistive. If adding harmonics "puts something back" that has been taken from the source then it will seem "more real". This is taking into account Ty_Bower's comment what is the signal clapping against!
Regards
M. Gregg
I don't recall that I ever said I had never heard the Aikido, I believe what I said is that I had not heard it within the context of that system, that's a different issue, and I have not heard his single stage pre-amp in any system. I have heard an octal based Aikido in my own system so I am not unacquainted with what one sounds like.
No, I'm not a moderator, but I thought that your original comment directed at the OP was at best uncharitable.
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6BG6GA, I am not knocking the Aikido. It is indeed transparent and very low noise, much quieter than the single tube plate follower.
I guess starting out with a simple plate follower which injects what I perceive as positive attributes to the sound, and going to something neutral as the Aikido make it sound a bit flat and less exciting.
Here are some pics of my Aikido project:
A bit of a bird's nest inside. Original plan was to incorporate a headphone amp inside; pretty tight in there.
Here is the eBay single tube plate follower with upgraded Alp pot, and the coupling capacitors bypassed with some better capacitors, not visible under the PCB.
Both amps are running Raytheon 5963 tubes.
I guess starting out with a simple plate follower which injects what I perceive as positive attributes to the sound, and going to something neutral as the Aikido make it sound a bit flat and less exciting.
Here are some pics of my Aikido project:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
A bit of a bird's nest inside. Original plan was to incorporate a headphone amp inside; pretty tight in there.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Here is the eBay single tube plate follower with upgraded Alp pot, and the coupling capacitors bypassed with some better capacitors, not visible under the PCB.
Both amps are running Raytheon 5963 tubes.
Hi Homl
I like the design of your Aikido project, very unique.
Where i can find a schematic for aikido?
I have build No-Compromise OTL Tube Headphone Preamplifier and im using it with PF99 (boght designed by Andrea Ciuffoli)
schematics are attached
Im very satisfied with sound of these setup, especially mid and high region.
Vocals are so alive, i have feeling they are present in my room and singing just for me
I started to build active crossover and i will also build another PF99 to improve the bass region.
Maybe someone here have a schematic for tube crossover? The one im building now is with NE5532 (even i dont like IC's) i just like to hear the difference between active and passive system.
I like the design of your Aikido project, very unique.
Where i can find a schematic for aikido?
I have build No-Compromise OTL Tube Headphone Preamplifier and im using it with PF99 (boght designed by Andrea Ciuffoli)
schematics are attached
Im very satisfied with sound of these setup, especially mid and high region.
Vocals are so alive, i have feeling they are present in my room and singing just for me
I started to build active crossover and i will also build another PF99 to improve the bass region.
Maybe someone here have a schematic for tube crossover? The one im building now is with NE5532 (even i dont like IC's) i just like to hear the difference between active and passive system.
Attachments
Thanks GoranB. Here is a link to their website. There are a lot of information and circuits. GlassWare Software's Home Page
They also sell circuit boards and kits to make them easy to assemble. GlassWare Line Stage & Headphone Amplifiers Kits and PCBs
Thanks for the circuits. I'll add them to my collection of circuits to try.
I have put together a Linkwitz-Riley two-way subwoofer crossover using OPA2134 for bi-amping, so I can remove the low bass loading of my speakers. Did not work out too well. The circuit suck some life out of my simple tube/T-amp setup. It was better off just blending the subwoofer to the existing setup. I guess keeping it simple sounds better.
They also sell circuit boards and kits to make them easy to assemble. GlassWare Line Stage & Headphone Amplifiers Kits and PCBs
Thanks for the circuits.
I'll add them to my collection of circuits to try.I have put together a Linkwitz-Riley two-way subwoofer crossover using OPA2134 for bi-amping, so I can remove the low bass loading of my speakers. Did not work out too well. The circuit suck some life out of my simple tube/T-amp setup. It was better off just blending the subwoofer to the existing setup. I guess keeping it simple sounds better.
GoranB, here is a site with a lot of driver information. Zaph|Audio
I have been dabbling in speaker building on and off for about 15 years. Nothing too extravagant, but very decent parts. My nicest build is the ZD5. However, I bought an inexpensive pair of Energy RC-10 for a very low, clear-out price. This made in China (designed in Canada) speakers will easily compete with the ZD5. The mids are not quite as sweet as the ZD5, but the highs excel. If I have to choose between the speakers, I'll take the RC-10. I have not heard your Wharfedales, but don't write them off base on price. From what I hear with the RC-10, excellent sound can be had for very little money. BTW, my RC-10s do have some tweaks; however, they still sound great out of the box.
I have been dabbling in speaker building on and off for about 15 years. Nothing too extravagant, but very decent parts. My nicest build is the ZD5. However, I bought an inexpensive pair of Energy RC-10 for a very low, clear-out price. This made in China (designed in Canada) speakers will easily compete with the ZD5. The mids are not quite as sweet as the ZD5, but the highs excel. If I have to choose between the speakers, I'll take the RC-10. I have not heard your Wharfedales, but don't write them off base on price. From what I hear with the RC-10, excellent sound can be had for very little money. BTW, my RC-10s do have some tweaks
; however, they still sound great out of the box.
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Quote:
I guess starting out with a simple plate follower which injects what I perceive as positive attributes to the sound, and going to something neutral as the Aikido make it sound a bit flat and less exciting.
Isn't the goal to have the sound as natural as possible without injecting something into it that isn't supposed to be there? There are some of us that do not even believe in tone controls. I'm into the tube scene for the clarity and attention to detail. I'm afraid I cannot agree that I've found any passage of music strained or having detail lost. If its coloration that your into then by all means stay with the plate follower and other designs that do inject their own details into the music. I would be more apt to point my finger in other places in your system for possible weakness.
My system consists of 4) Klipsch Cornwall Clones driven by a pair of modified Quicksilver Mono block amps that receive their signal from a Aikido 6SN7/6SN7. Source is a Marantz CD-63SE Special Edition CD Player. Mine has no problem when it comes to attention to detail even the smallest.
I guess starting out with a simple plate follower which injects what I perceive as positive attributes to the sound, and going to something neutral as the Aikido make it sound a bit flat and less exciting.
Isn't the goal to have the sound as natural as possible without injecting something into it that isn't supposed to be there? There are some of us that do not even believe in tone controls. I'm into the tube scene for the clarity and attention to detail. I'm afraid I cannot agree that I've found any passage of music strained or having detail lost. If its coloration that your into then by all means stay with the plate follower and other designs that do inject their own details into the music. I would be more apt to point my finger in other places in your system for possible weakness.
My system consists of 4) Klipsch Cornwall Clones driven by a pair of modified Quicksilver Mono block amps that receive their signal from a Aikido 6SN7/6SN7. Source is a Marantz CD-63SE Special Edition CD Player. Mine has no problem when it comes to attention to detail even the smallest.
Aikido - proof of the pudding
This is indeed a great discussion - save for some disparaging comments that were made about the OP's aural acuity.
I have decided to go ahead and build a p-p wired Aikido and will decide for myself if it improves my listening experience. My current preamp is an ARC SP8 with a pair of Softone SUT's for LVMC phono gain.
This is indeed a great discussion - save for some disparaging comments that were made about the OP's aural acuity.
I have decided to go ahead and build a p-p wired Aikido and will decide for myself if it improves my listening experience. My current preamp is an ARC SP8 with a pair of Softone SUT's for LVMC phono gain.
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