• WARNING: Tube/Valve amplifiers use potentially LETHAL HIGH VOLTAGES.
    Building, troubleshooting and testing of these amplifiers should only be
    performed by someone who is thoroughly familiar with
    the safety precautions around high voltages.

One more 4P1L SE

So I also built a 4P1L PSE amp courtesy of Andy Evans posting this beautifully simple schematic. Filament bias via Rod Coleman's regulators, Silk Audio output transformer, 290V of B+, 40mA per tube

The thing sounds gorgeous with vocals and instrumental music. I built one channel only so far, and listened to it mono for a few hours. It's driven by Aikido preamp and speakers are Mission M73 connected to 8R tap

Now is it me, or does this set up fall a bit short on rock music with more (heavy) bass? B+ so far is unregulated 50uF - 7H - 50uF supply. I have space in the chassis to add a regulator, SSHV or Maida, will it improve my bass?

I am really on the fence, wrap it up, build 2nd channel and enjoy, or keep tweaking. I know this is DIY and I have to try it all myself, but I would appreciate some nudge in the right direction

Thanks!


Hi SolderSober.


I had have mine for nearly 3 month now. I'm mostly using mine directly without any PRE Amp. I have a little less gain, but the sound quality is way better.

Mine is based upon Andy's design. I have quite expensive Caps Vcap CuFT and a TDK 2CP-2511 pot, with gyrator Audyn True Copper and my Sowter S9 , 5K.

PSU with Choke and Film Caps it 2 separate boxes.

When I play Rock,Metal,Hiphop with a level of extended bass, The bass is deep clear and completely transparent on my Tannoy HPD-385A 303 liter speakers. It sound different compared to my 'Old 2A3 loftin white' and It serious took me some time to get used to the natural way it sound.

Maybe the 4P1L PSE does sound a 'little polite' when you play Rock music, I don't think it's an issue when you get used to the quality of this amp. Every new CD/LP is a new story on this amp.

I'll suggest you to build the other 'mono' as it's quite difficult to judge the amp on only one channel.
 
Here's my current version of the PSE 4P1L. I now use NP Acoustics amorphous transformers, made in Vietnam.
 

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With a 5U4 or other valve rectifier?

The 50µ-7H-50µF storage is too low for hard bass, you are right.

But with thermionic rectifiers, increasing the C values is not a good idea.

Changing to the Wolfspeed SiC rectifiers, and using high quality industrial capactors is one way forward. For my SE, I use 1200V 8A diodes (in a bridge), and 2x 820µF 550V ALS60 (Kemet) per channel. These caps are much better than low-value items, including fancy «audio» types.

I use 1N5406G diodes, so I suppose I can add more capacitance. I wanted to stay with film caps, hence the low values. This part is easy to play with, will give it some try. Any advice on where to add extra caps (electrolytic I suppose)? Thanks

Another question - what is the consensus on delayed B+ for these tubes, any sense building it in?
 
With a 5U4 or other valve rectifier?

The 50µ-7H-50µF storage is too low for hard bass, you are right.

But with thermionic rectifiers, increasing the C values is not a good idea.

Changing to the Wolfspeed SiC rectifiers, and using high quality industrial capactors is one way forward. For my SE, I use 1200V 8A diodes (in a bridge), and 2x 820µF 550V ALS60 (Kemet) per channel. These caps are much better than low-value items, including fancy «audio» types.

Rod,
Sounds like you like this configuration over tube rectified. Would you tell me more about it. I always found the SS rectification sound fast and thin. Might be your approach is a step forward.
Thanks
Albert
 
Andy,
Can I have a link for that NP transformers. I would like to try. Thanks Albert

Phương Nguyễn <npacoustic@gmail.com> NP Acoustic - NP Hi-End Audio

I love his amorphous core stuff. 3.2K OPT and the smaller plate choke I have, 136H at 15mA. It's really smooth. I doubt if it's expensive - I didn't pay for mine, so can't give you a price.
 
Even though they have pretty strong control grid, I would not charge coupling caps through chokes & grid currents. Let them charge through grid leak resistors before tubes start conducting.

Ok, I need to admit this went over my head. At the same time I feel it's important
Can you please explain a bit more what you meant here?
I have a problem with the second channel build that may be related. Thanks
 
When the driver stage loaded on a choke, and coupled with a coupling cap, that choke and the coupling cap form a tuned oscillation tank that causes higher currents through the control grid when powered on than if the driver was loaded on a resistor.

It is a really bad idea to delay B+ in tube amps. It was used in big transmitting tubes with high cathode density, like magnetron oscillators in radars. When filaments were heating up they start oscillating, because it is enough of emission from a small portion of cathode, that gets hotter as the result damaging the tube. That's why B+ was delayed until all cathode emits uniformly. Manufacturers of amps always add some "selling features", no matter do they improve, or harm the amp. Delayed B+ is one of them.
 
Before you apply B+ coupling caps are discharged. If you apply it when cathodes are hot, coupling caps charge through control grid currents. But when you apply B+ before cathodes are hot, there is no current through control grids, it goes through grid leak resistors.

Is not it obvious?
Interesting.
I'm a ardent proponent of delayed +B until I modified my car tube amp and I noted a strong peak current in my 12V bench PSU when the 20 sec delayed +B supply started, far bigger than charging the secondary HV cap. In fact the output tubes are suffering from this. I shortened the delay and now have only 2-3 sec., only for distributing the starting peaks (first peak being the heaters). With tubes cold, the HV PSU current peak are far shorter and smaller. Now the output tubes are happy.
These bench measurements are good here.
Note that HV SMPS inverter supply have low output impedance output so it maintain the HV even with all output tubes with zero g1, so I also added some protection...

Of course, if one uses tube rectification, if using indirectly heated rectifier tubes, will apply gently the voltage to stages so overload are minimal. DH rectifiers will suffer when feeding IDH tubes.

In other amp of mine, a PL509 PP amp (in my main home system), I delayed only the output supply, so even the coupling caps are charged when output receives power.