on this amp, there are 3 choises for tubes on the PCB : 6N1 (came with the amplifier) and 12AU7 and 12AT7
here are photos showing the prints on PCB :
Outer tubes :
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Inner Tubes :
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I am not sure the circuit is perfectly tuned for 1 type of tubes, I should measure voltages on mine to see, also there are multiples versions on sale, they differ by some components.
Since the tubes are for the preamp only, havent noticed any difference when rolling them from the stock Shauguan's. I did get rid of the wire holders that must of had 50 foot pound or torque "smashing" them in place. That couldnt be good.
I finally replaced a few of the caps with Nichicon muse. Not a lot of improved difference, and probably shouldnt have done so as the muse are not high temp as the crappy stock caps were...
I wanted to say again that any VK-2100 owner needs to do heat management and venting at a minimum, and check the output bias per another thread from a couple years ago on the same subject. Dont know of a single VK-2100 out there from the factory where the outputs are correct and have been at least close to correct and matched.
Ive got about 500 hours on mine now, and I'm telling you this amp is still a best bang for your buck. I found the knobs to be too slick for daily use and touching, and added some large diameter industrial heat shrink to mine (black). It looks good and now provides some grip and protection.
Still waiting for a woodworker (worldwide) to make a new cover for one out of exotic or mixed high grade wood, with added venting. Not being a woodworker, always wanted to see that and obtain one myself somehow. It would look soo much better!
Steve M- when youre rockin, have you gone past 50% on the volume yet? Mine cranks out huge db's at even 50%!
I finally replaced a few of the caps with Nichicon muse. Not a lot of improved difference, and probably shouldnt have done so as the muse are not high temp as the crappy stock caps were...
I wanted to say again that any VK-2100 owner needs to do heat management and venting at a minimum, and check the output bias per another thread from a couple years ago on the same subject. Dont know of a single VK-2100 out there from the factory where the outputs are correct and have been at least close to correct and matched.
Ive got about 500 hours on mine now, and I'm telling you this amp is still a best bang for your buck. I found the knobs to be too slick for daily use and touching, and added some large diameter industrial heat shrink to mine (black). It looks good and now provides some grip and protection.
Still waiting for a woodworker (worldwide) to make a new cover for one out of exotic or mixed high grade wood, with added venting. Not being a woodworker, always wanted to see that and obtain one myself somehow. It would look soo much better!
Steve M- when youre rockin, have you gone past 50% on the volume yet? Mine cranks out huge db's at even 50%!
Hi,
Stock Shuguang is really Too smooth and shy, week on highs, and more important, bass is boomy, on complex music everything becomes relatively messy very rapidly.
With the 6N1P-EV, everything is much clearer in the highs but the biggest improvements was the bass, more slam, much less boomy, but everything keeps a lot of sweet, no aggressiveness, it is impossible you didn't notice the difference it is really an upgrade !!!
For the Bias just look to the DOC
Stock Shuguang is really Too smooth and shy, week on highs, and more important, bass is boomy, on complex music everything becomes relatively messy very rapidly.
With the 6N1P-EV, everything is much clearer in the highs but the biggest improvements was the bass, more slam, much less boomy, but everything keeps a lot of sweet, no aggressiveness, it is impossible you didn't notice the difference it is really an upgrade !!!
For the Bias just look to the DOC
I did some mods lately :
I replaced all the noname blue capacitors of 0.47uf by some ERO 1840 0.33uf 400v, and added one of those to each of the capacitors between the tubes.
I decoupled the 10000uf caps, by a 10uf MKP each + russian k42y2 0.33uf (because i have them !).
I removed a Connecter under the PCB and soldered the wires directly to the board.
Finally I replaced the IEC socket with a Schaffner 9226-3-02 filter, it needed some work on the case but I was really minimal.
It gained a lot in the bass department, more controle, the highs are "more stable" while hearing some strong voices at loud levels it is less aggressive, smoother, and bizarrely the amp seems to have gained some power, It can sound louder without distortion than before the mods, Great .
here are pics of the old socket (I had some 0.1uf x2 ceramic capacitors for filtering, not bad for cheap amp !!) :
and the new one too
By the way if an expert can have a look at the diagram in the page 2, and can give us some tweaks or mods, this would be great, do not hesitate !!!
I replaced all the noname blue capacitors of 0.47uf by some ERO 1840 0.33uf 400v, and added one of those to each of the capacitors between the tubes.
I decoupled the 10000uf caps, by a 10uf MKP each + russian k42y2 0.33uf (because i have them !).
I removed a Connecter under the PCB and soldered the wires directly to the board.
Finally I replaced the IEC socket with a Schaffner 9226-3-02 filter, it needed some work on the case but I was really minimal.
It gained a lot in the bass department, more controle, the highs are "more stable" while hearing some strong voices at loud levels it is less aggressive, smoother, and bizarrely the amp seems to have gained some power, It can sound louder without distortion than before the mods, Great .
here are pics of the old socket (I had some 0.1uf x2 ceramic capacitors for filtering, not bad for cheap amp !!) :
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
and the new one too
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
By the way if an expert can have a look at the diagram in the page 2, and can give us some tweaks or mods, this would be great, do not hesitate !!!
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I lent my Vk2100 to an audio buddy of mine and he didn't quite like the sound of it. He found it a bit bright and forward. I think he does quite like a warm and neutral tone, so not too surprised by his comment.
Playing the VK2100 through my Yamaha NS-1000x speakers (which are very revealing), I just find the amp very detailed and fast sounding, no smearing of bass notes into the important mid-treble region, giving a clear and open presentation - that's why I like it.
Rockmore: I find the amp plays plenty loud at 12 o'clock on the volume dial, no need for any more. I haven't tried it into a difficult spkr load yet though, I'll have to try it with my Spendor BC-3 spkrs which usually require a bit of driving!
Also, does anyone know the stand-by or general power consumption of this amp ??
Regards,
Steve.
Playing the VK2100 through my Yamaha NS-1000x speakers (which are very revealing), I just find the amp very detailed and fast sounding, no smearing of bass notes into the important mid-treble region, giving a clear and open presentation - that's why I like it.
Rockmore: I find the amp plays plenty loud at 12 o'clock on the volume dial, no need for any more. I haven't tried it into a difficult spkr load yet though, I'll have to try it with my Spendor BC-3 spkrs which usually require a bit of driving!
Also, does anyone know the stand-by or general power consumption of this amp ??
Regards,
Steve.
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Your Yahama and Spendor's need the VK-2100's extra punch if you ask me. Those old school factory made designs really don't bring out the potential of this amp. But glad youre enjoying it! Ive ran mine with three different sets of speakers, all very efficient, and currently running these Tritrix TL's I made. Couldnt be happier so far.
Google Image Result for http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu80/dhancoc/PICT3801.jpg
Like I said before, there was a guy who posted a big thread about the output balancing somewhere back a few years ago. Cant remember if it was here or on AK. Really makes a difference. Bet "your friends" speakers are old school factory bought. I also run two full tube amps, and still love my VK-2100 with the heavy duty Japanese transistor outputs. 12 O'Clock is 50%; and that's more than enough like you said. Ive got mine running through a 12" powered sub also for parties, etc. It's just great.
Bazouka- that's a lot of work! Hope it's been worth it, and would be interested to hear about the mid/long term benefits of your mods. Keep sharing step-by-step specifics of your mods, and part numbers/vendors for what you've said you've replaced. I have not found any actual beneficial parts replacement for any of the caps vs whats stock.
I'm telling you- we've got to find a VK-2100 lover who is a woodworker. Cosmetically, this thing would look great with a custom exotic wood case with a semi-gloss coat, WITH plenty of venting.
Google Image Result for http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu80/dhancoc/PICT3801.jpg
Like I said before, there was a guy who posted a big thread about the output balancing somewhere back a few years ago. Cant remember if it was here or on AK. Really makes a difference. Bet "your friends" speakers are old school factory bought. I also run two full tube amps, and still love my VK-2100 with the heavy duty Japanese transistor outputs. 12 O'Clock is 50%; and that's more than enough like you said. Ive got mine running through a 12" powered sub also for parties, etc. It's just great.
Bazouka- that's a lot of work! Hope it's been worth it, and would be interested to hear about the mid/long term benefits of your mods. Keep sharing step-by-step specifics of your mods, and part numbers/vendors for what you've said you've replaced. I have not found any actual beneficial parts replacement for any of the caps vs whats stock.
I'm telling you- we've got to find a VK-2100 lover who is a woodworker. Cosmetically, this thing would look great with a custom exotic wood case with a semi-gloss coat, WITH plenty of venting.
Rockmore: your speakers look very nice, is that a Dynaudio Esotar (or Morel) tweeter you are using in the d'appolito configuration?
As to the Yamaha NS1000-X's they are quite a different beast to the normal NS1000, they are much more efficient, with better imaging and lots more bass. I don't know about them being old school? The beryllium drivers in the Yammy are unsurpassed (and copied in recent times by Focal JM Lab etc.). I'm not sure the plasticky cones in your DIY effort could really keep up with the Yammy drivers for ultimate detail retrieval ?? Just an opinion though, as I have not heard your speaker ...
Besides, I have access to a large collection of efficient speakers (both my own DIY efforts and commercial spkrs) to try the VK2100 amp on, see my system pics and story here: AudiogoN Forums: Supratek Grange Based System or here http://cgim.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/vs.pl?vevol&1146370182&viewitem&82&showall
Regards,
Steve M.
As to the Yamaha NS1000-X's they are quite a different beast to the normal NS1000, they are much more efficient, with better imaging and lots more bass. I don't know about them being old school? The beryllium drivers in the Yammy are unsurpassed (and copied in recent times by Focal JM Lab etc.). I'm not sure the plasticky cones in your DIY effort could really keep up with the Yammy drivers for ultimate detail retrieval ?? Just an opinion though, as I have not heard your speaker ...
Besides, I have access to a large collection of efficient speakers (both my own DIY efforts and commercial spkrs) to try the VK2100 amp on, see my system pics and story here: AudiogoN Forums: Supratek Grange Based System or here http://cgim.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/vs.pl?vevol&1146370182&viewitem&82&showall
Regards,
Steve M.
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Hello, nice to see this thread, i'm from Chile and have this amp for a year and a half now. I haven't do deep mods to the amp, the only modifications are:
1. Change stock tubes for: 2x12AU7 (NOS Organ type GE) + 2x12AT7 (Mullards 4024), and have reach this tubes after passing by 4xPCC88 (Philips) and 4x6DJ8 RCA. All combinations are very good, but for Blues-Rock the 12**7 are better.
2. Get rid of the metal plate in the back of the tubes, to get the amp cooler
3. Disconect the power lamp (too bright).
I also read carefully the mods that describe bazouka, but i don't totally understand and have no electronic skills to do that type of intervention.
The amp is connected to a pair of good Paradigm 9seMK3, and for source i have a NAD T513 and a generic media player (HiMedia HD300).
Regards.
1. Change stock tubes for: 2x12AU7 (NOS Organ type GE) + 2x12AT7 (Mullards 4024), and have reach this tubes after passing by 4xPCC88 (Philips) and 4x6DJ8 RCA. All combinations are very good, but for Blues-Rock the 12**7 are better.
2. Get rid of the metal plate in the back of the tubes, to get the amp cooler
3. Disconect the power lamp (too bright).
I also read carefully the mods that describe bazouka, but i don't totally understand and have no electronic skills to do that type of intervention.
The amp is connected to a pair of good Paradigm 9seMK3, and for source i have a NAD T513 and a generic media player (HiMedia HD300).
Regards.
Found a couple of pics provided by M Jarve. Dont know if he is here or still only over @ Audiokarma. I remember talking a great deal about this before I did my calibrations, and it really helped with my channel balances and cooling. I would suggest finding the entire original post by M Jarve. As he and I stated many times, haven't run into a single VK-2100 from the factory that was calibrated correctly. So if any of you all you haven't tackled this simple adjustment yet, yours is out of whack. Cheers!
Attachments
The tubes, whatever flavor one rolls, are for the preamp only you know... Still dont know how much difference your shy highs and boomy bass would be rolling preamp tubes only. That much noticeable difference has to do with the SS mains, output adjustments, and what speakers you are using.
Hello
I think I finished doing all the tweaks on my amp, I'll sit and listen now.
My Speakers are French Cabasse MT3 Antigua, they are Great for my taste..
I've put the link for the bias manipulation in this tread before and here it is again: Let me google that for you
Last modifications where :
Replacement of the 47uf 450V capacitors by better 82uf 400v ones, decoupled with some Russians I had in my desk (not a big gain).
Replacement on the lousy Nichicon LK 10000uf capacitors by NCC KMH 15000uf ones (they fit just right, specially the hight)
I added an ERO1840 0.33 cap under each row of blue capacitors, to bring back the whole capacitance to near origine (0.33uf x5 in place of 0.47ufx4)
I replaced the signal connection with some silver coated Coax Cable RG316, Not a Necessary mod but I wanted to test It..
The biggest difference to the previous state, was by replacing the 10000uf filtering caps by better 15000 ones, Bass is faster (I love fast bass) but more interestingly, this amplifier as all amplifiers tend to sound thinner (treble goes high) when you push it into high power zones, and it loses separation between instruments, anyway Upgrading those caps really keeps the amp more balanced whey listening to (VERY) high sound levels .
And really changing the stock Chinese tubes by russian 6n1p-ev in my case (and many others on the French forum for the vk2100) brought in a more Flat sound, and a much better résolution, I tried them again for some hours this W.E., No way I am keeping the Chinese tubes in !!
It is nearly impossible you haven't heard any gain by doing the same, but what counts more is how this amp suits your ears.
also I have to say that I change the 4 tubes every year, old 6n1p tubes loses trebel and liveness, I keep tha amplifier on for long periods of time, I evaluated the useful life of tubes for me to be under 2000 hours,
please note I have not chacked the tube section for the voltages etc, so mabe my amp is burning tubes, I dont care because the tubes are about 7 dollars for the 4, and I have 10 on them at home, but maybe I will check that in the near future.
Here are some new pics from my amp, after mods :
I think I finished doing all the tweaks on my amp, I'll sit and listen now.
My Speakers are French Cabasse MT3 Antigua, they are Great for my taste..
I've put the link for the bias manipulation in this tread before and here it is again: Let me google that for you
Last modifications where :
Replacement of the 47uf 450V capacitors by better 82uf 400v ones, decoupled with some Russians I had in my desk (not a big gain).
Replacement on the lousy Nichicon LK 10000uf capacitors by NCC KMH 15000uf ones (they fit just right, specially the hight)
I added an ERO1840 0.33 cap under each row of blue capacitors, to bring back the whole capacitance to near origine (0.33uf x5 in place of 0.47ufx4)
I replaced the signal connection with some silver coated Coax Cable RG316, Not a Necessary mod but I wanted to test It..
The biggest difference to the previous state, was by replacing the 10000uf filtering caps by better 15000 ones, Bass is faster (I love fast bass) but more interestingly, this amplifier as all amplifiers tend to sound thinner (treble goes high) when you push it into high power zones, and it loses separation between instruments, anyway Upgrading those caps really keeps the amp more balanced whey listening to (VERY) high sound levels .
And really changing the stock Chinese tubes by russian 6n1p-ev in my case (and many others on the French forum for the vk2100) brought in a more Flat sound, and a much better résolution, I tried them again for some hours this W.E., No way I am keeping the Chinese tubes in !!
It is nearly impossible you haven't heard any gain by doing the same, but what counts more is how this amp suits your ears.
also I have to say that I change the 4 tubes every year, old 6n1p tubes loses trebel and liveness, I keep tha amplifier on for long periods of time, I evaluated the useful life of tubes for me to be under 2000 hours,
please note I have not chacked the tube section for the voltages etc, so mabe my amp is burning tubes, I dont care because the tubes are about 7 dollars for the 4, and I have 10 on them at home, but maybe I will check that in the near future.
Here are some new pics from my amp, after mods :
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
VK-2000 hum noise....
I had tried to find the hum noise fo mine.
In result, I removed C15(104, 2ea) like pic..
And add a left-right balance VR..
Very good sound !
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I had tried to find the hum noise fo mine.
In result, I removed C15(104, 2ea) like pic..
And add a left-right balance VR..
Very good sound !
Çϴùٶ÷À̵é·ÁÁÖ´ÂÀ̾߱â :: ³×À̹ö ºí·Î±×
Steve- No, I'm currently running a great pair of
the TrixTrix I built from parts-express. TriTrix done and tested - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video, and Electronics Customer Discussion Forum From Parts-Express.com. They are Dayton audio.
Another best-bang-for-your-bucks if you have the means to build and finish them yourself.
Bazouka- still wanted to say how impressive and great your mods are. Thanks for posting all your pics. Would be nice if you posted a parts list together, along with available vendors, for all the mods/parts you did.
Thought I would also say old Capt'n Bob now has two package deals for replacement 6N1P's for the preamp. Have talked to him a few times and looking for 2 matched 12AU7's/12AT'7 from him in a package deal. Will see what he comes up with. YAQIN VK-2100 Premium Tube Set Svetlana 6N1P Preamp | eBay
YAQIN VK-2100 Premium Tube Set Russian 6N1P Preamp | eBay
the TrixTrix I built from parts-express. TriTrix done and tested - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video, and Electronics Customer Discussion Forum From Parts-Express.com. They are Dayton audio.
Another best-bang-for-your-bucks if you have the means to build and finish them yourself.
Bazouka- still wanted to say how impressive and great your mods are. Thanks for posting all your pics. Would be nice if you posted a parts list together, along with available vendors, for all the mods/parts you did.
Thought I would also say old Capt'n Bob now has two package deals for replacement 6N1P's for the preamp. Have talked to him a few times and looking for 2 matched 12AU7's/12AT'7 from him in a package deal. Will see what he comes up with. YAQIN VK-2100 Premium Tube Set Svetlana 6N1P Preamp | eBay
YAQIN VK-2100 Premium Tube Set Russian 6N1P Preamp | eBay
Oh Also- heres the link to the bias adjustment over at AK:
Yaqin VK-2100 tube integrated amp - Page 2 - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums
Yaqin VK-2100 tube integrated amp - Page 2 - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums
I have other Yaquin model, 5881 integrated tube amp, with the same 6N1 Shuguang signal tubes.
Only mod i add to my amp till now is Tempoelectric silver wiring on signal path and speakers output(different gauges) and Jantzen Superior caps instead factory MKPs(russian K42-2 caps should be also a real jam for that purpose). Good result.
I always get the best from it when i put in it two pairs of tottaly different signal tubes.
Can be argued, but it just works better then all 4 signal tubes of the same brand and type.
For mine and lot of other amps on 6N1, even on Prima Lunas, one of the best signal tubes is odd looking 6N6P.
About this tube jewel.
eBay
/i.html?_trkparms=65%253A12%257C66%253A2%257C39%253A1%257C72%253A4981&rt=nc&_nkw=6n6p&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1581&_pgn=2
Calms sound to the astonishing level. Perfect, very even articulation of music, lyrical to die for. Bit quieter, it s a microphone tube.
In a way it sounds like you have triode mode amp instead ultralinear.
But. Be aware.
Dont buy 6N6P OTK-EV boxed and paired tubes made in eightees. Those have slight artifacts in highs after few days of burning in.
After those i tried ordinary 6N6P, non chromed pins, unpaired, but made in seventies. Also made in Novosibirsk factory. No artifacts. Just love them.
I will order some older 6N6P Reflector plant version. I m assuming those ones could be also ok.
I also tested Vostok 6N1P-EV(made in 70ies) and ordinary 6N1P ones from seventies, the result is opposite in that case. OTK version have much better stereo and slightly better resolution.
My favorite pairs of signal tubes. (my power tubes are Genalex Gold Lion KT77, very demanding and "unforgiving" power tube, but fantastic performer, when you work hard-mod to "answer" on most of her demands. It s reference for me).
6N6P non EV and 6N1P-EV- refinement and slam.
JJ E88CC(not the same model of very polite sounding Tesla NOS, Tesla just dont work in that combo) and 6N1P-EV- Huge dynamic and resolution.
Philips JAN6992, 6N1P-EV. Unsurpassed R&R combo - Gibson SG, Fender Strat-Tele, sound at it s best.
Some says, that 6N1 equivalent is also ECC85.
Next ones for me to try them.
Only mod i add to my amp till now is Tempoelectric silver wiring on signal path and speakers output(different gauges) and Jantzen Superior caps instead factory MKPs(russian K42-2 caps should be also a real jam for that purpose). Good result.
I always get the best from it when i put in it two pairs of tottaly different signal tubes.
Can be argued, but it just works better then all 4 signal tubes of the same brand and type.
For mine and lot of other amps on 6N1, even on Prima Lunas, one of the best signal tubes is odd looking 6N6P.
About this tube jewel.
eBay
/i.html?_trkparms=65%253A12%257C66%253A2%257C39%253A1%257C72%253A4981&rt=nc&_nkw=6n6p&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1581&_pgn=2
Calms sound to the astonishing level. Perfect, very even articulation of music, lyrical to die for. Bit quieter, it s a microphone tube.
In a way it sounds like you have triode mode amp instead ultralinear.
But. Be aware.
Dont buy 6N6P OTK-EV boxed and paired tubes made in eightees. Those have slight artifacts in highs after few days of burning in.
After those i tried ordinary 6N6P, non chromed pins, unpaired, but made in seventies. Also made in Novosibirsk factory. No artifacts. Just love them.
I will order some older 6N6P Reflector plant version. I m assuming those ones could be also ok.
I also tested Vostok 6N1P-EV(made in 70ies) and ordinary 6N1P ones from seventies, the result is opposite in that case. OTK version have much better stereo and slightly better resolution.
My favorite pairs of signal tubes. (my power tubes are Genalex Gold Lion KT77, very demanding and "unforgiving" power tube, but fantastic performer, when you work hard-mod to "answer" on most of her demands. It s reference for me).
6N6P non EV and 6N1P-EV- refinement and slam.
JJ E88CC(not the same model of very polite sounding Tesla NOS, Tesla just dont work in that combo) and 6N1P-EV- Huge dynamic and resolution.
Philips JAN6992, 6N1P-EV. Unsurpassed R&R combo - Gibson SG, Fender Strat-Tele, sound at it s best.
Some says, that 6N1 equivalent is also ECC85.
Next ones for me to try them.
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Two new tube sets out today for the VK-2100. Capt'n Bob did some great calculations and provides some great info. Worth reading even if you're not in the market for a new set. Just thought I would pass these along.
YAQIN VK-2100 ULTRA Tube Set 12AU7 12AT7 Genalex Gold | eBay
YAQIN VK-2100 ULTRA Tube Set 12AU7 12AT7 Gold Pin | eBay
YAQIN VK-2100 ULTRA Tube Set 12AU7 12AT7 Genalex Gold | eBay
YAQIN VK-2100 ULTRA Tube Set 12AU7 12AT7 Gold Pin | eBay