
Home  Forums  Rules  Articles  diyAudio Store  Blogs  Gallery  Wiki  Register  Donations  FAQ  Calendar  Search  Today's Posts  Mark Forums Read  Search 
Tubes / Valves All about our sweet vacuum tubes :) Threads about Musical Instrument Amps of all kinds should be in the Instruments & Amps forum 

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.
Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving 

Thread Tools  Search this Thread 
12th August 2007, 03:24 PM  #1 
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Aug 2007

New 12ax7a Pspice model
Hi guys,
I've just developed a new Pspice Model for 12ax7a.It's computationally heavy for the processor but i'm successfully working on "lighter" models. U can download it fo free at my personal page. I'm interested in your comments. Bye 
12th August 2007, 05:48 PM  #2 
diyAudio Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Stittsville, Ontario, Canada

Spice models with polynomials
eppidei
I tested your model in a ciruit I use to test models by sweeping plate voltage and stepping grid voltage and comparing the results to the data. I swept plate voltage from 0 to 250 Volts and stepped grid voltage from +1 to 5 volts in .5 volt steps. I also plotted a max power curve of 1.2 Watts. Here is the result with your active model : C:\downloads\12AX7A_dream_active.jpg and here is the result using a Koren type model : C:\downloads\12AX7_Koren.jpg The problem with yours is that it is no good at all over about 4 or 5 milliamps. I suspect that this is because you have used polynomials fit to curves, and those curves only went to 4 or 5 milliamps. The problem with curve fitting using polynomials is that the result is only accurate over the range of data you have used, ie you can interpolate with polynomials, but you cannot extrapolate with polynomials. The polynomial just goes off wherevever it wants to outside the range of your data. I dont like polynomials at all for spice models, but you may use them if you wish. As the 1.2W power curve shows, 12AX7 tubes will frequently be biased in areas where your model is completely innaccurate. So, if you are going to use polynomials then you must base them on a much wider range of data. I dont have any good 12AX7 data right now, but perhaps sometime in the next couple of weeks I will be able to take some measurements, and I will post the results
__________________
Robert McLean 
12th August 2007, 05:59 PM  #3 
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SoCal

Where can I find the model?

13th August 2007, 11:19 PM  #4 
diyAudio Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Stittsville, Ontario, Canada

I notice my files did not attach properly, so my post doesnt make to much sense, so here is another attempt with the files.
__________________
Robert McLean 
13th August 2007, 11:23 PM  #5 
diyAudio Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Stittsville, Ontario, Canada

OK, that was the result with my model.
Heare is the result of eppidei model
__________________
Robert McLean 
14th August 2007, 03:05 PM  #6 
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Aug 2007

Hi Robert,
thanks for ur comment.I don't use pure polynomial interpolation but u're right the model fits only the RCA curves i Knew.let me know If u have other data . However i'm preparing new semianalytical models that will not suffer from this problem. What do u think about the grid current? 
17th August 2007, 12:33 AM  #7 
diyAudio Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Stittsville, Ontario, Canada

suggested changes
eppidei :
I havent had time yet to chart some real tube data, but perhaps Saturday or Sunday I will do this. When I first looked at your model I did not understand what all the resistors and 0 volt sources were for, but then I figured it out why you were using them. You dont have to do it that way in SPICE, instead of using current sources (G) use voltage sources (E), and give names to the nodes which can then be referenced in functions later on, rather than the current through the 0 volt sources. I have attached a file showing what I mean, you will see radically reduces the size of the model.
__________________
Robert McLean 
17th August 2007, 04:06 PM  #8 
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Aug 2007

model explanation
Robert,
I know.It was my first choice but I had a lot of "Overflow" by Pspice.In the new versions this kind of error it's shown instead of simple convergence problem.I realized that it was due to the fact that interpolation coefficients were too low for voltage sensibility(usually 1 uV).So i decided to use current sources (1 pA) and it works. If u can,try to sweep input current against grid voltage.Are the input current values meanly correct in your opinion? 
19th August 2007, 10:31 PM  #9 
diyAudio Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Stittsville, Ontario, Canada

12AX7A data, including grid current
eppidei :
I measured some 12AX7A tubes today, and I have attached the data from the most typical looking one. You should be able to use this data to fit your model to a real tube, and to get real grid current modelled.
__________________
Robert McLean 
20th August 2007, 03:39 AM  #10 
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Aug 2007

Robert,
I'm so grateful to you.I hope to upgrade this model in the next days and to post the results.I hope to post the new kind of model i'm working on too. If this approach will be successfull i think to be able to apply it to penthodes. Thanks,Leo. 
Thread Tools  Search this Thread 


Similar Threads  
Thread  Thread Starter  Forum  Replies  Last Post 
IRS2092 pSpice model  rob mullen  Class D  2  25th October 2012 11:12 PM 
6BX7 PSpice Model?  pftrvlr  Tubes / Valves  8  14th October 2007 10:50 PM 
pspice model of 811A  billr  Tubes / Valves  0  15th July 2007 07:47 AM 
HIP4080A pspice model  Anthony C Smith  Class D  1  3rd January 2006 08:52 PM 
PSpice model for Outputtranformers  Posthorn  Tubes / Valves  1  31st July 2003 01:27 PM 
New To Site?  Need Help? 