Study confirms superior sound of a Stradivari is due to the varnish | Ars Technica
This tilte doesn't seem so conclusive after reading the article, wood drying and treating techniques, wood species and origin etc.. But it made me think of Dave at Planet 10 and his coatings/treatments of drivers.
This tilte doesn't seem so conclusive after reading the article, wood drying and treating techniques, wood species and origin etc.. But it made me think of Dave at Planet 10 and his coatings/treatments of drivers.
There are many studies about this subject, e.g.:
The Secret Of The Stradivari Violin Revealed - Texas A&M Today
Mineral Preservatives in the Wood of Stradivari and Guarneri
My opinion is that a loudspeaker is much different than a musical instument. A loudspeaker should not have its own characteristic "sound", it should be as neutral as possible. Ideally, any vibrations should decay in a very short time.
Just like a concert hall vs. a recording studio.
The Secret Of The Stradivari Violin Revealed - Texas A&M Today
Mineral Preservatives in the Wood of Stradivari and Guarneri
My opinion is that a loudspeaker is much different than a musical instument. A loudspeaker should not have its own characteristic "sound", it should be as neutral as possible. Ideally, any vibrations should decay in a very short time.
Just like a concert hall vs. a recording studio.
Superior sound would mean it sounded different to begin with but no, Blind-tested soloists unable to tell Stradivarius violins from modern instruments | Article | The Strad
This study was linked to in the article in the first post Player preferences among new and old violins
Violins can be "played out" as in they don't sound as good as they did when they were made. Not in the same way a modern cheap instrument is strangled by the varnish but just worn out from fiber stresses when playing.
It's had to say what the Stradivarius violins sounded like when they were relatively new. Add to that the fact that none of the ancient instruments were made to deal with the stresses put on them by modern tuning. I see them as more of a status symbol and historical artifact than the holy grail of tone and projection.
It's had to say what the Stradivarius violins sounded like when they were relatively new. Add to that the fact that none of the ancient instruments were made to deal with the stresses put on them by modern tuning. I see them as more of a status symbol and historical artifact than the holy grail of tone and projection.
A lot of the hype about those has been due to the use of different wood species in the build.
Wood does dry out over time, which is why linseed oil is sometimes applied, other oils are also used.
So an old Stradivarius violin which has not been properly stored or maintained will also sound a little off...
Wood does dry out over time, which is why linseed oil is sometimes applied, other oils are also used.
So an old Stradivarius violin which has not been properly stored or maintained will also sound a little off...
Actually, they were investigated, it was on one of the knowledge channels years back, the man used an unusual combination of wood species in different parts of the violin, and more than expected...if the normal violin had say 5 types of wood, he used 8 or more...
If you are curious, look it up.
I prefer classic rock, and old Hindi film songs, I do not appreciate violin music.
To each his own...
If you are curious, look it up.
I prefer classic rock, and old Hindi film songs, I do not appreciate violin music.
To each his own...
Reducing the sound of a VERY complex instrument such as a violin to varnish applied is simplistic, to put it mildly. VERY mildly.
Or maybe it´s right?
Here´s some proof, consider it one way or the other.
Our own, Buenos Aires based Classical Music/Comedy group "Les Luthiers", famous for the WILD instruments they create and use (hint: "luthiers"), first showing and then playing the "Latín" , name based on "Violin" and "lata", common word for tin cans.
In this case, a Plumrose Danish Ham can.
Latín closeup and explanation:
Les Luthiers - Instrumento "Latin" - YouTube
Latin used in "Sonatas for Latín and Piano"
Les Luthiers Sonatas para latin y piano - YouTube
Latín at: 1:05 2:42 and specially 4:01 , plus 7:52
Funny thing is, it sounds *good* ..... at least quite usable in the mix
As you see, here in Argentina we do not have much patience for "Mojo" or "magical fairydust components", finding that plain vanilla stuff is often quite competent for a desired job.
Unless you think Les Luthiers cheated and sprayed their Latín with some Magic Stradivarius Varnish, that is, which to some minds might sound like a "logic" explanation.
Or maybe it´s right?
Here´s some proof, consider it one way or the other.
Our own, Buenos Aires based Classical Music/Comedy group "Les Luthiers", famous for the WILD instruments they create and use (hint: "luthiers"), first showing and then playing the "Latín" , name based on "Violin" and "lata", common word for tin cans.
In this case, a Plumrose Danish Ham can.
Latín closeup and explanation:
Les Luthiers - Instrumento "Latin" - YouTube
Latin used in "Sonatas for Latín and Piano"
Les Luthiers Sonatas para latin y piano - YouTube
Latín at: 1:05 2:42 and specially 4:01 , plus 7:52
Funny thing is, it sounds *good* ..... at least quite usable in the mix
As you see, here in Argentina we do not have much patience for "Mojo" or "magical fairydust components", finding that plain vanilla stuff is often quite competent for a desired job.
Unless you think Les Luthiers cheated and sprayed their Latín with some Magic Stradivarius Varnish
, that is, which to some minds might sound like a "logic" explanation.
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The claim was about the varnish, not different type of wood. If you want to make a new violin modeled after the sound of Stradivarius, why would you use different type of wood?
Having handled a few Strads, I can say with certainty, the sound of a Strad compared with a good Joseph Guarnerius del Gesu... Illustrates perfectly varnish has nothing to do with it.
They are different violins with radically different sound character, which is why Heifetz played one as did Leonid Kogan.
I can assure a good Strad will make the player consider it as a friend for life, and should be cared for as an "old lady".
+
It's nothing to do with modern "tuning".
ie.
Add to that all of these 17th-18th century instruments were strung with gut strings until the wire wound string came along, and played with bows which were basically only perfected thanks to the French Tourte model and made famous by Peccatte and others with the backing of people like the great dealer and maker Vuillaume in Paris.
Without these great technical advances the hype associated post war with these great Italian instruments would never have taken off.
(ie, they are no longer affordable by musicians, and mostly become the object of speculation and "investment vehicles").
The varnish had a role in protecting and preserving the wood.
But as noted above, it was only a cover, not the instrument.
The other aspect was the cause of the fame of these rare instruments. and I put what little I knew about it.
As for coating speaker cones, there are polymer graphite cones, plastic cones, and those made of other materials, more found in car audio because they have to work well in far more difficult conditions than those encountered indoors.
So linking speaker coating and the varnish used in rare violins was itself hard to understand, they have little to do with each other.
And that varnish was made mostly if not entirely out of plant based materials, not treated hydrocarbons as encountered today.
So my thinking was...hey dude, how did you connect those two together?
No offense meant, please...
But as noted above, it was only a cover, not the instrument.
The other aspect was the cause of the fame of these rare instruments. and I put what little I knew about it.
As for coating speaker cones, there are polymer graphite cones, plastic cones, and those made of other materials, more found in car audio because they have to work well in far more difficult conditions than those encountered indoors.
So linking speaker coating and the varnish used in rare violins was itself hard to understand, they have little to do with each other.
And that varnish was made mostly if not entirely out of plant based materials, not treated hydrocarbons as encountered today.
So my thinking was...hey dude, how did you connect those two together?
No offense meant, please...
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My point was that the ancient violins were not made to deal with the stresses associated with A = 440+ tunings. No matter the type of strings, it will take more tension to achieve tunings like that than the instruments were designed to handle.
That being said, I never touched strad, never even heard one in the flesh. I don't play violin, I've paid for them though
NareshBrd, https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/09/study-confirms-superior-sound-of-a-stradivari-is-due-to-the-varnish/< it's in the title, sound is superior due to varnish, Dave / Planet10 EnABLs drivers, a coating to improve the sound. I don't think it was such a stretch. Yes two different things, but, both being coated with something that may effect the way they sound.
From that same article:
"In fact, a 2012 double-blind study of 21 experienced violinists found that most of the subjects preferred playing the newer instruments; the Stradivarius ranked last in their preferences. Most of them couldn't tell the difference between the old and new instruments, with no significant correlation between an instrument's age and its monetary value."
Please read the article again.
Ars Technica is a fluffy sort of magazine, the articles are more teasers meant for average readers than hard technical data.
Also mentioned is that those violins were made from wood grown during a very extended cold period, the wood from the same species is more dense than from other periods. Which means that my above statement about different wood was correct.
And not just the varnish, the seasoning and treatment was important.
Varnish is just a coating, so the article was fluffy, I think wood treatment and varnish are not the same thing, varnish is part of the overall wood treatment.
Anyway, the process of coating the speaker driver cone will make it more stiff, and depending on the material and thickness, make it tend to vibrate at lower frequencies.
That will affect reproduction, whether it is to your taste or not is up to you, it is an individual preference.
"In fact, a 2012 double-blind study of 21 experienced violinists found that most of the subjects preferred playing the newer instruments; the Stradivarius ranked last in their preferences. Most of them couldn't tell the difference between the old and new instruments, with no significant correlation between an instrument's age and its monetary value."
Please read the article again.
Ars Technica is a fluffy sort of magazine, the articles are more teasers meant for average readers than hard technical data.
Also mentioned is that those violins were made from wood grown during a very extended cold period, the wood from the same species is more dense than from other periods. Which means that my above statement about different wood was correct.
And not just the varnish, the seasoning and treatment was important.
Varnish is just a coating, so the article was fluffy, I think wood treatment and varnish are not the same thing, varnish is part of the overall wood treatment.
Anyway, the process of coating the speaker driver cone will make it more stiff, and depending on the material and thickness, make it tend to vibrate at lower frequencies.
That will affect reproduction, whether it is to your taste or not is up to you, it is an individual preference.
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You were talking about wood species, not the same specie grown at different period.
I'm not sure what your definition of "very cold" is but it was unseasonably cooler during that period.
I have no experience with instrument making but lots with wood as many here probably do. Violins are made of spruce and maple mostly. I'm a renovation contractor and deal with hundred + year old structures regularly. Lots of old houses are made with these woods. A spruce 2x4 can be so hard a hundred years later it can be impossible to drive a screw into it. OTOH, the one next to it can be quite soft still. Maple can get as hard as ebony. Fruit woods get even harder. As was mentioned, there's no telling what those instruments sounded like when they were made. Do all Strads currently sound similar?...like violins no doubt. 