I thought the tests shown summed up a lot of well made points.
The actual difference with cables of equal length did in fact measure different.
The higher end cables did reduce inductance and resistance.
The tradeoff was higher capacitance.
The actual measured changes to frequency response was mainly seen above 10 kHz.
Test were done both ways as mentioned, Into a resistive load ( no speaker)
and reactive load ( speaker )
The actual difference above 10 kHz good vs bad was .06 dB
I belief it was 8 foot lengths.
Obviously if we went up to longer lengths like 16 or 25 feet the effect of inductance and resistance would be more measurable.
That is the thing, assuming most users keeping cable length to 3 to 10 feet.
likely will have no audible issue.
And also saying highend cable manufactures are liars and thief's.
Technically some brands are proven to reduce inductance and resistance.
And it has been accurately measured.
How audible that difference is, obviously will fill up forum pages with arguments.
Assuming with extremely long cable length, its more likely it would be / could be audible
If someone does hear a difference its hard to prove, we cant go into their brains
and confirm. lol
The actual difference with cables of equal length did in fact measure different.
The higher end cables did reduce inductance and resistance.
The tradeoff was higher capacitance.
The actual measured changes to frequency response was mainly seen above 10 kHz.
Test were done both ways as mentioned, Into a resistive load ( no speaker)
and reactive load ( speaker )
The actual difference above 10 kHz good vs bad was .06 dB
I belief it was 8 foot lengths.
Obviously if we went up to longer lengths like 16 or 25 feet the effect of inductance and resistance would be more measurable.
That is the thing, assuming most users keeping cable length to 3 to 10 feet.
likely will have no audible issue.
And also saying highend cable manufactures are liars and thief's.
Technically some brands are proven to reduce inductance and resistance.
And it has been accurately measured.
How audible that difference is, obviously will fill up forum pages with arguments.
Assuming with extremely long cable length, its more likely it would be / could be audible
If someone does hear a difference its hard to prove, we cant go into their brains
and confirm. lol
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Not only one aspect but not distortion. That thread was only about trying to measure delays caused by cables and if that was audible, but with an interesting diversion into transmission line behaviour.
For me the main takeaway is that you should look at it as a system not individual components and Engineering the solution beats the heck out of the tweak and listen approach.
Liberal? Not that there's anything wrong with that!
Distortion as a general word has many definitions, and I've seen two in this thread that are audio related.
One is commonly called harmonic distortion, which I interpret as nonlinear distortion (some output signal is not, at each and every instant of time, exactly proportional to some input signal) which generates harmonics from a sine wave input. This is the D in the infamous THD that for way too many decades has been used as the main figure of merit for audio equipment.
Another might be called linear distortion, meaning a single-frequency sine wave will be in an exact proportion between input and output at all times, but the proportional "constant" may change with frequency. This is what equalization and tone controls do - they distort (or in cases like RIAA playback EQ, restore) the frequency balance of a signal.
These are both perfectly good technical definitions, and both can be (when using a perverse enough "cable") applied to the topic of this thread.
Distortion as a general word has many definitions, and I've seen two in this thread that are audio related.
One is commonly called harmonic distortion, which I interpret as nonlinear distortion (some output signal is not, at each and every instant of time, exactly proportional to some input signal) which generates harmonics from a sine wave input. This is the D in the infamous THD that for way too many decades has been used as the main figure of merit for audio equipment.
Another might be called linear distortion, meaning a single-frequency sine wave will be in an exact proportion between input and output at all times, but the proportional "constant" may change with frequency. This is what equalization and tone controls do - they distort (or in cases like RIAA playback EQ, restore) the frequency balance of a signal.
These are both perfectly good technical definitions, and both can be (when using a perverse enough "cable") applied to the topic of this thread.
Linear distortion and nonlinear distortion are both correctly classified as distortions. Both alter waveshape.
Anharmonic distortion is also nonlinear, isn't it? AES E-Library >> Aliasing Distortion in Digital Dynamics Processing, the Cause, Effect, and Method for Measuring It: The Story of "Digital Grunge!"
Have you read the paper? Aliasing distortion has nothing to do with the common analog distortion mechanisms. "Distortion" is used sometimes in the context of aliasing for lacking of a better word.
When a signal is sampled at a sampling frequency less than twice the value of the highest frequency component present in the sampled signal, the result is a component showing as a low frequency component. This is known as "aliasing distortion", or simply "aliasing".
If linear distortion would be a true concern in audio, then each and every filter in the signal path introduces linear distortion and should be eliminated. A LP filter at the amp input, intended to suppress the RF ingress, will introduce linear distortions. Which is absurd, and I suspect "linear distortions" is yet another concept used and abused by the High End Audio fear mongers.
I suspect the concept of "linear distortions" appeared in the context of video applications, where indeed (for example) a linear phase is a requirement, and every deviation from linearity may affect the output.
Regarding linear distortion in audio, some people seem to think low frequency transient sound is affected by any distortion of waveshape.
Also, what some people refer to as 'smeared' sound could possibly be due to the phase distortion of the equivalent RC ladder networks used to explain the effect of, and or to model, DA. The word smear in that context refers to an associated perceptual experience. However, in the ESS ES9822 PRO data sheet, ESS uses the term as follows: "These complementary filters allow for analog-digital-analog processing with the utmost audio fidelity and minimized time-domain smearing." Presumably they are referring to minimization of linear distortions?
Also, what some people refer to as 'smeared' sound could possibly be due to the phase distortion of the equivalent RC ladder networks used to explain the effect of, and or to model, DA. The word smear in that context refers to an associated perceptual experience. However, in the ESS ES9822 PRO data sheet, ESS uses the term as follows: "These complementary filters allow for analog-digital-analog processing with the utmost audio fidelity and minimized time-domain smearing." Presumably they are referring to minimization of linear distortions?
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In my MichiP5 / Michi S5 system and Revel F226Be loudspeakers, I can perfectly hear the difference in the sound of any audio cable, wherever it is ... the only difficulty is choosing the best one, since a large selection of cables is on a limited budget.
I would also like to clarify my statement # 173. I don’t delve into Wikipedia, since people like us write it ... My version sounds so that the skin effect will not introduce harmonic distortion only when listening to a sinusoid of the same constant amplitude, and with a linear load, which in our case with listening to music is an unattainable goal ...
I am sure you can hear differences, and so do the group of friends you are enjoying music with. Lots of other people do.
Skin effect does not introduce any harmonic distortion, anywhere more than the tide forces. If we are back to debating sine vs. music (that is, questioning Fourier) then there's nothing else to discuss here.
Skin effect modulates the impedance of an audio cable based on the amplitude of the audio signal and its frequency. And since even the linear resistance of an audio cable leads to an increase in harmonic distortion due to the flow of a nonlinear load current through it, the skin effect aggravates this situation, and not vice versa, and even more so it cannot be neutral.
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