There is a difference between having a viable and deployable technology vs. just being discovered at some lab somewhere. Even today, not sure if there is such radar spoofing tech that can be made it practical in warfare.
By the way, chaffing is not a radar spoofing technology. We are talking about a hologram affect.
I agree. There's a minimum of a five year difference. Plus the defense budget you conveniently didn't quote me on.
"Chaffing is not a radar spoofing technology"?
Okay, if you say so.
I think I mentioned "hologram," with a bit of tongue in cheek. That's not really what we're talking about; the patent involves a laser-created plasma that fools heat-seeking weaponry, and maybe IR surveillance. I can't really speak to that latter, or how the plasma might affect modern radar.
BTW, I don't characterize eg, Los Alamos or Oak Ridge as just "some lab somewhere."
"Chaffing is not a radar spoofing technology"?
Okay, if you say so.
I think I mentioned "hologram," with a bit of tongue in cheek. That's not really what we're talking about; the patent involves a laser-created plasma that fools heat-seeking weaponry, and maybe IR surveillance. I can't really speak to that latter, or how the plasma might affect modern radar.
BTW, I don't characterize eg, Los Alamos or Oak Ridge as just "some lab somewhere."
I suspect that blinking lights are there for the most plain and obvious reason. To get noticed. Surely, these objects don't need lights to flash for any other purpose, like they were some toddlers floor toy.
I guess we can only speculate or at least only I. Maybe you know something that we don't. As I said previously, with respect to the Nimitz encounter, it's quite a feast if that something can fool the ship-based Aegis system, an F18 radar and an eye-witness account of four different pilots.
The plasma stuff isn't chafing (with one 'f') but is spoofing. The plasma, in its most advanced form, is creating an artificial 'image' that looks like a jet engine in the IR spectrum, thus attracting any enemy IR homing missiles.
Chafing is creating multiple radar images that confuse either enemy search or tracking radars or enemy missile nose-cone radars. Primitive chafing was done with small pieces of aluminum or metallized plastic that reflected radar signals as mentioned, but nowadays also (against IR tracking systems) with flares in the IR spectrum.
It's a brave new world out there.
Jan
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Interesting article here by Nathan Siegel on aliens with some links to others
Ask Ethan: What Danger Is There In Actively Searching For Intelligent Aliens?
Ask Ethan: What Danger Is There In Actively Searching For Intelligent Aliens?
I read recently that DDT was found in the grand daughters of woman exposed to it in the 50’s and 60’s. Then there’s the glyphosate stuff as well that’s going on now.
Seems there’s a lot to consider wrt to increased cancer rates - no doubt elevated radiation levels also a factor. My wife’s school year has lost 13 due to cancer - seems the area she grew up in is a cancer hot spot.
Here another Nathan Siegel aericle that postulates that we may be the only ones in the Milky Way - so now you’ve had both sides of the story
What If It's Just Us?
What If It's Just Us?
If 'they' want to get noticed why haven't they tried the most obvious way to get noticed and just simply land somewhere?
Easy. Check Dark Forest theory: Why aliens haven't contacted us - Big Think
Suppose we contact (or are contacted by) an alien civilization. As history shows, the lesser of the two will be exterminated over a longer or shorted timeframe, (Aztecs by Spaniards, American Indians by Brits, French, etc, you get the point). So, either we get exterminated, or the other civilization gets exterminated. Best strategy: keep still, don't even advertise you exist. Fermi paradox solved.
The universe is a dark forest. Every civilization is an armed hunter stalking through the trees like a ghost, gently pushing aside branches that block the path and trying to tread without sound. Even breathing is done with care. The hunter has to be careful, because everywhere in the forest are stealthy hunters like him. If he finds another life—another hunter, angel, or a demon, a delicate infant to tottering old man, a fairy or demigod—there's only one thing he can do: open fire and eliminate them.
Jan
Suppose we contact (or are contacted by) an alien civilization. As history shows, the lesser of the two will be exterminated over a longer or shorted timeframe, (Aztecs by Spaniards, American Indians by Brits, French, etc, you get the point). So, either we get exterminated, or the other civilization gets exterminated. Best strategy: keep still, don't even advertise you exist. Fermi paradox solved.
The universe is a dark forest. Every civilization is an armed hunter stalking through the trees like a ghost, gently pushing aside branches that block the path and trying to tread without sound. Even breathing is done with care. The hunter has to be careful, because everywhere in the forest are stealthy hunters like him. If he finds another life—another hunter, angel, or a demon, a delicate infant to tottering old man, a fairy or demigod—there's only one thing he can do: open fire and eliminate them.
Jan
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In that link, "The fear is that, by announcing our presence to the Universe, a predatory, plunderous alien civilization — with technology likely far, far advanced beyond our own — will set out to conquer us.
Given the gap in technology that surely exists, as they’re likely hundreds, thousands, or even millions of years ahead of us, it will be a short, brutal war that ends in extinction or enslavement for humanity. Like the plot of many alien invasion movies, but without an unrealistic victory for us plucky humans, we could be sealing our own demise."
As already discussed on the other UFO thread, if the beings are advanced enough to travel this far in such "short" time, they may not be into destroying and conquering a primitive civilization because they would be above the primal motives which we still have.
Hear, Hear. In the context of civilizations meeting civilizations resulting in one being destroyed it should always be remembered that you're talking about "human civilizations". So an analysis like the Dark Forest is a mixture of anthropomorphism and psychological projection.
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That is a good point. But don't you think that the survival drive would be a kind of universal drive of any civilization? And that logically leads to trying to draw your own gun first, so to speak.
Jan
This is basically speculation on both our parts. I would guess that if a civilization's technology is advanced enough they would assess any threat to themselves and react accordingly. In other words, if one can easily evade an opponent's weapons there is no reason to engage with your own weapons and escalate the situation. That also seems consistent with tales that have been told since the 50s. Not saying they are accurate...
I can't speak for the aliens, but evade and not escalade has to the best of my knowledge never happened on earth. In each case, the dominant culture wiped out the losing side. Unmercifully.
But we can speculate that aliens are strictly good guys, sure.
Edit: the reason that I believe that the survival instinct is not specific anthropomorphic, is that a survival instinct is a product of evolution. Only the species that ruthlessly advances itself at the cost of anybody else will survive and become dominant (that's how we did it). Since a possible advanced alien civilization, by definition, has become the dominant civilization in their neck of the woods, they, again by definition, must necessarily have a strongly developed survival instinct.
Jan
But we can speculate that aliens are strictly good guys, sure.
Edit: the reason that I believe that the survival instinct is not specific anthropomorphic, is that a survival instinct is a product of evolution. Only the species that ruthlessly advances itself at the cost of anybody else will survive and become dominant (that's how we did it). Since a possible advanced alien civilization, by definition, has become the dominant civilization in their neck of the woods, they, again by definition, must necessarily have a strongly developed survival instinct.
Jan
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Well, there are plenty of anecdotal reports of the objects having done that over the decades.
If you were them (assuming for the moment that they are, ahem, alien), and you wanted to introduce your presence without provoking a public panic, would you simply land your fleet in the world's capitols, or would you reveal yourself in short, sporadic glimpses over many years?
I don't think it necessarily means they are good guys. It's all contextual. Even our best tech might look to them like the local village folk shaking their pitchforks at them. They might be saying to themselves: "Oh look. I think that means they're upset. Isn't that cute"