Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

The Lounge A place to talk about almost anything but politics and religion.

Measurement and Perception
Measurement and Perception
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 2nd July 2020, 09:03 AM   #1
bimo is offline bimo  Indonesia
diyAudio Member
 
bimo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Depok, West of Java
Default Measurement and Perception

For people who living in Jakarta, room temperature about 22 degree Celsius considered as "cold". But for people who living in 4 seasons, considered as "hot".

For people who living in country side (Indonesia), walking at 5 km is "near", but people who living at big city, it is "far".

Measurement and human perception is different. Culture, habit, mindset can influence to the perception.

What do you think?

Can it happen in audio?
__________________
#Perkutut#Emprit#GagakHitam#Elang#Pelatuk#Colibri# Blameless100#Blameless150#Blameless1200#AX14Mod#FX 8Mod#AX11Mod#LM1875InvertingWithBuffer#LM3886Inter tingWithBufferAndDCServo#more...
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2020, 10:57 AM   #2
mterbekke is offline mterbekke  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Groningen
Almost everything is based on perception, measurements as well.
If 2 measurements are the same, there's no problem. When they are slightly different and you'd have to choose which one's better, you need to interpret the values and make a decision.
Listening can help making that decision, but is easy to get wrong for many reasons e.g. on too small loudspeakers one shouldn't really make an opinion about bass performance since some octaves can't even be heard or felt on those systems.
Apart from that I guess knowing how certain instruments should sound is the best way to get unreliable, personal preference out of the way.

Selamat jalan ya!
__________________
Fewer words pls!
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2020, 02:57 PM   #3
Tubelab_com is offline Tubelab_com  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Tubelab_com's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: West Virginia panhandle
Quote:
Can it happen in audio?
Of course. As with your earlier analogy, for younger people who have only heard downloaded MP3 music through ear buds or cheap headphones, a mid-range stereo system through decent speakers is "awesome." To these people the difference between a mid-range stereo and an audiophile grade system is often imperceptible, unless there is a big difference in the bass impact.

To someone who like myself who has been building their own stuff for over 50 years, an MP3 player is a "noise source." To me the difference between a $20 MP3 player and a pricey iPod (or high end smartphone) is nearly imperceptible.

A lot of this does depend on the choice of music played through these systems. Most of what I put on my grandkid's MP3 players has a dynamic range of about 15 dB and sounds worse on a good stereo.....but pushes the subwoofer around on the floor.
__________________
Tubelab, I blow stuff up so that you don't have to.
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2020, 04:13 PM   #4
mchambin is online now mchambin  France
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Most people will say, the sound system that is better is the one that plays louder.
__________________
Transistor junction temperature is not transistor case temperature.
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2020, 04:58 PM   #5
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
diyAudio Member
 
scottjoplin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Penrhyndeudraeth
I think if one is interested in making real progress then one looks for similarities in how we perceive rather than differences and tries to measure them, like Floyd Toole for example.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2020, 03:09 AM   #6
bimo is offline bimo  Indonesia
diyAudio Member
 
bimo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Depok, West of Java
Quote:
Originally Posted by mterbekke View Post
Almost everything is based on perception, measurements as well.
If 2 measurements are the same, there's no problem. When they are slightly different and you'd have to choose which one's better, you need to interpret the values and make a decision.

Selamat jalan ya!
In audio, too many measurement to describe the quality. Designer can have different point of view which one most important and which one less important.

What is your point of view about this?
__________________
#Perkutut#Emprit#GagakHitam#Elang#Pelatuk#Colibri# Blameless100#Blameless150#Blameless1200#AX14Mod#FX 8Mod#AX11Mod#LM1875InvertingWithBuffer#LM3886Inter tingWithBufferAndDCServo#more...
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2020, 03:37 AM   #7
sser2 is offline sser2  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
When performance of audio system or it's components is measured, there lis ittle solid evidence for this metric or that, like harmonic distortion or frequency response, reflects the perceived sound quality.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2020, 08:40 AM   #8
jan.didden is offline jan.didden  Europe
diyAudio Member
 
jan.didden's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Westende Resort, BE coast
The other thing is that your perception changes all the time, with time of day, your mood, external circumstances, your friends around, etc. Even when the system is exactly the same every time, your perception still differs.

Jan
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2020, 09:07 AM   #9
Bonsai is online now Bonsai  Europe
diyAudio Member
 
Bonsai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Europe
Interesting discussion. When I was 17 I lived in big (1 million people) city. I got drafted into the military and ended up in the desert for one year on the opposite side of the country.

I remember coming back home after a year and thinking how small the city (Durban) looked. The reason of course was that my perception of space had been completely altered by being in a flat, open and completely empty place for 12 months. Same thing with colours -the greens were 'hyper' green and literally popped for the first day or two until I got used to them again.

I think the same thing happens in audio. Your perception of what is/sounds good changes. That's why people say 'after it had burnt in for a week it sounded wonderful'. Of course it did. Your brain almost certainly 'tuned' the sound to what it expected to hear.

A good test of this idea is headphones. I have a pair of ATH 900 'Air' that cost me about $350 in 2010 when I lived in Japan. About a year ago I went into the local city here in the UK with $1000 burning a hole in my pocket to buy a new pair of headphones. Luckily I took my old phones with me. I bought nothing. They all sounded boxy, or too bassy or too hissy.

Some of these phones had very good reviews. What was wrong? I hadn't given my brain time to tune to the new sound - the headphones were all ok. I'll only buy new ones when these ones finally konk out. I decided no need to put my ears through a recalibration at this stage of life
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2020, 09:46 AM   #10
gpauk is offline gpauk  Scotland
diyAudio Member
 
gpauk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: NE Scotland
Good point. If you have ever had your ears syringed, for a few hours afterwards everything sounds very different until the brain's adaptive filters and agc catch up....
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Measurement and PerceptionHide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
AKG Perception 100 mic repair Alexander Baev Analog Line Level 7 8th July 2014 11:40 AM
Loudspeaker perception pdan Multi-Way 656 25th October 2008 11:02 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:16 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 14.29%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2020 diyAudio
Wiki