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Are youngers being more stupid?
Are youngers being more stupid?
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Old Yesterday, 10:57 PM   #601
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Are youngers being more stupid?
I had a friend who lived in his truck and used solar power, batteries and inverters to get 120V AC. I kept trying to get him to use 12V lighting to be more efficient. He wouldn't - too complicated. Oh well, sunshine is cheap and plentiful on Maui.
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Old Yesterday, 11:35 PM   #602
Pharos is offline Pharos  United Kingdom
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On other audio sites SMPSs are despised, so as a general question, are they crap not?
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Old Today, 12:55 AM   #603
wg_ski is online now wg_ski  United States
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In general, SMPS’s are not crap, but many are. Cut corners, and you get garbage. An audio amp draws a continuously varying load, from near zero to a little over 3X it’s RMS power rating. A supply that can deal with that gracefully, and reliably, is expensive. Consumer electronics will cut corners, and typically you won’t get something quite as capable. The requirements for lighting ballasts aren’t as stringent. You can live with less ripple filtering. And the load is for the most part constant. Power requirements are only tens or maybe 100-200 watts for the big suckers (ie, HID replacements). So you can make a reasonably reliable supply cheap. But you do get a lot of garbage as well - the supplies in cheap LED light fixtures often burn out in a few years. Spend a little more and that typically won’t happen.

What is really needed in homes (perhaps businesses) is a standard 12 or 24 volt DC bus that is run in addition to the AC mains, specifically for small appliances with brushless DC motors and LED lighting. Maybe 500 watts or so. Need more, run multiple busses. A good highly efficient and highly reliable LLC converter could be used, installed at the breaker panel. It may cost $1000, but it’s something you would replace every 10 or 20 years. Simple buck converters could be used locally at the point of use, to step down to 5 volts when needed. Some sort of standard would need to be agreed on and adhered to, as far as voltage (range) and maximum power draw at any one device. Options for battery backup could also be written into the standard.
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Old Today, 12:58 AM   #604
Gnobuddy is offline Gnobuddy  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pharos View Post
On other audio sites SMPSs are despised,
They also despise every other technology invented after the 1938 300B vacuum triode, correct?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pharos View Post
so as a general question, are they crap (or) not?
Well, they've virtually replaced old-school power supplies in almost every consumer electronics product, so that says something, no?

At work, we have several old 60 Hz power supplies that can deliver 8 volts at 10 amps (80 watts). Each of them is about 45 cm x 15 cm x 20 cm, and weighs maybe 15 kg.

A typical modern switch-mode laptop power supply delivers about the same power (many are rated for 80 watts or more). I just measured an older HP laptop power supply, and it measured 10 cm x 4 cm x 3 cm, and weighs 160 grams. So this little beauty is one-tenth the volume, and nearly one-hundredth the weight, of the old-school 60 Hz power supply with the same output power.

As far as I'm concerned (and as far as most of the global electronic consumer industry is concerned), switch-mode power supplies are absolutely wonderful things. So much smaller, so much lighter, so much cheaper, and they deliver better quality DC, particularly when you need lots of current. What an incredible gift to anybody interested in electronics!

The only bad thing about them is that it's very hard to DIY one, so we have to buy them as "black boxes", and use them without knowing exactly what's inside. I had to get used to that many decades ago, when I first began using integrated circuits to build audio amps and preamps - ICs are "black boxes" too!


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Old Today, 01:04 AM   #605
Gnobuddy is offline Gnobuddy  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wg_ski View Post
What is really needed in homes (perhaps businesses) is a standard 12 or 24 volt DC bus that is run in addition to the AC mains
I was thinking along similar lines when I wrote those posts about household LED bulbs. Something like this would make a lot of sense. Perhaps one day LED-friendly voltages will be incorporated into the wiring of new buildings as they're constructed.

Regarding SMPS and audio power amplification, most of the small music production studios have gone to powered monitor speakers during the last twenty years or so, and every one of these I've seen uses an internal SMPS. Depending on size and cost, the internal audio power amps may deliver up to 50 - 100 watts RMS to the loudspeakers, so the internal SMPS must be pretty beefy.


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