Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

The Lounge A place to talk about almost anything but politics and religion.

What causes grainy sound
What causes grainy sound
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 21st September 2019, 09:06 AM   #41
johnego is offline johnego  Indonesia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by skem View Post
How does one learn which types are “noisy”. Is anybody keeping a table of these?
Carbon is the most noisy type. Wirewound and thin film are the least noisy types. In general. There are a few resistor measurements, this one is most thorough i think: https://dcc.ligo.org/public/0002/T09...rent_noise.pdf
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st September 2019, 09:33 AM   #42
analog_sa is online now analog_sa  Europe
diyAudio Member
 
analog_sa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Cascais
What causes grainy sound
Resistor noise is just common knowledge. Are you saying it affects perceived grain in sound? It would then follow that higher resistor values and higher ambient temperature would also increase grain. Don't think i agree with any of this. Carbon composition and carbon film resistors may have audible issues but grain imho is not one of them.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st September 2019, 10:09 AM   #43
cumbb is offline cumbb
diyAudio Member
 
cumbb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: different/relative
Quote:
It would then follow that higher resistor values and higher ambient temperature would also increase grain.
Has the one to do with the other one;-?

At moment my experience: thin- and thick-film-resistors are the quietest.
And: The number of resistors makes the sound grainy. The more the more;-)
__________________
different/relative,-)
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st September 2019, 11:10 AM   #44
analog_sa is online now analog_sa  Europe
diyAudio Member
 
analog_sa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Cascais
What causes grainy sound
Certainly. The current noise is significant only in higher current circuits, while temperature noise is always there and is dominant at lower current/higher resistor values. Why should one of these noise types add grain and the other not? They have a similar spectral distribution.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st September 2019, 11:59 AM   #45
Ramcres is offline Ramcres
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Level 1: Make a amplifier that sounds , easy task.
Level 2:Make an acceptable sound amplifier , you have learned what not to do

Level 3:Make a good amplifier ,you have learned what to do.




BR
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st September 2019, 01:34 PM   #46
skem is offline skem  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Cambridge, MA
Johnego et all, Stewart was talking about known noisy *transistors.*. There is plenty out there on resistor noise.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st September 2019, 02:44 PM   #47
Ken Newton is offline Ken Newton  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Ken Newton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Eastern Pennsylvania
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigun View Post
some people say the opposite and that it is possible by measuring the proper things to make different amplifiers sound the same

The Carver Challenge | Stereophile.com
I, essentially, agree with that conclusion. The problem, however, becomes knowing exactly which objective parameters directly correlate to which subjective sound characteristics, and to what degree they are correlated. I think there are some designers who know all/most of the proper correlations, but I suspect that they are a clear minority. I suspect this is because the 'secret formula' is not much based on the expected engineering view of high performance amplification, the most obvious of which is the pursuit of vanishingly low, long ago inaudibly low, harmonic distortion.

I should state that I do NOT believe in audio magic. I believe that if the sound is subjectively different, then the signal must, somehow, also be physically different. Objectivists would agree with that conclusion, however, they don't believe the subjective sound is actually ever different if they don't detect an obvious correlation in a standard battery of parameter measurements. Which, again, I think, begs the question of whether they're looking at the right parameters, and in the right context?

I suggest that anyone concluding that nothing objective is being missed, and that the mass numbers of listeners who hear a difference are ALL delusional, is a too convient head burying dodge, if I can risk calling it that.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st September 2019, 02:52 PM   #48
analog_sa is online now analog_sa  Europe
diyAudio Member
 
analog_sa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Cascais
What causes grainy sound
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Newton View Post
I think there are some designers who know all/most of the proper correlations, but I suspect that they are a clear minority.

And they are NOT in the business of writing books about amplifiers
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st September 2019, 03:10 PM   #49
jackinnj is online now jackinnj  United States
diyAudio Member
 
jackinnj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Llanddewi Brefi, NJ
What causes grainy sound
Quote:
Originally Posted by skem View Post
How does one learn which types are “noisy”. Is anybody keeping a table of these?
Buy yourself a copy of the most recent version of "The Art of Electronics" -- there's a table right in there. Some nice surprises in there like the ZTX851.

I agree with Fast Eddy -- DC offset, and DC on trimmers which may, over time, cause failure and may be somewhat non-linear with age.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st September 2019, 04:20 PM   #50
johnego is offline johnego  Indonesia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by skem View Post
Johnego et all, Stewart was talking about known noisy *transistors.*. There is plenty out there on resistor noise.
Oops, mea culpa! I have stated about transistor noise. I think the common agreement is that transistor noise is irrelevant in amplifier level. But may be I'm the only one who believe transistor noise is important in input stage of an amplifier. Unfortunately low noise transistors are either low voltage (45v) or low current gain (<300). So there's a trade off as usual.

I prefer low noise transistor for sound accuracy/naturalness, and I purchase plenty to get the highest current gain for dynamic performance especially in simple stage.

Many fake transistors sound grainy. Absolutely.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


What causes grainy soundHide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
One channel grainy sound tubob Tubes / Valves 6 17th October 2012 07:05 AM
The Ultimate Sound Improving for Compact Disc's through Patent-Pend.CD Sound Improver tiefbassuebertr Digital Source 145 25th April 2011 07:39 PM
Eighteen Sound (18 Sound) NSD 1095N Compression Drivers and XT1086 Horns opc Swap Meet 6 1st May 2009 03:48 AM
grainy preamp gain sourgrout Tubes / Valves 12 10th March 2005 04:49 AM
Grainy speaker finish DIY_Peter Multi-Way 3 20th October 2003 07:11 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:55 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 15.00%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2019 diyAudio
Wiki