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There is nothing without conciousness, existence must be observed
There is nothing without conciousness, existence must be observed
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Old 14th August 2019, 02:14 AM   #121
Discopete is offline Discopete  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olsond3 View Post
When you become unconscious behind the wheel of your fast moving car, I would expect that the tree your car is headed for does not suddenly cease to exist.
Consciousness includes the state of being unconscious/subconscious.



Nice quip
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Old 14th August 2019, 02:16 AM   #122
gabdx is offline gabdx  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Darwin View Post
Consciousness is a side effect of what the brain does to facilitate the survival and reproductive success of the genes contained within us and other lifeforms.
it is remarkable that humans with the lowest consciousness have the fastest reproduction rate

the absence of consciousness facilitate (...) the lower you go in the species complexity
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Last edited by gabdx; 14th August 2019 at 02:18 AM.
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Old 14th August 2019, 05:34 AM   #123
indra1 is offline indra1  Indonesia
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Originally Posted by gabdx View Post
it is remarkable that humans with the lowest consciousness have the fastest reproduction rate...
I understand lowest level of education, but how do you measure consciousness?
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Old 14th August 2019, 06:25 AM   #124
KaffiMann is offline KaffiMann  Norway
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There is nothing without conciousness, existence must be observed
Some people seem to be stupid on purpose...
When I refer to stupidity, it's: When people really should know better, but they still go ahead and make some ridiculous decision.
Lots of highly educated people that have managed to pull through school and get some degree, but that does not always makes a person good at dealing with other people, or "life" in general.

Then there is the amount of drama where it's not needed, almost like people want more drama in their life, perhaps caused by boredom of looking at a screen for days on end... A smart move would probably be getting up and go do something else, most people seem to lack the ability to make this decision.

People that are not good at relationships get more chances to screw up so to speak.
People that are able to understand, compromise and adapt, are rewarded with fewer life partners.

Personally, I would define consciousness as relative to ability of understanding/comprehension/awareness of ones surroundings.
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Old 14th August 2019, 08:02 PM   #125
gabdx is offline gabdx  Canada
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Mammals are conscious, only humans have an abstract language. You do not need to be human to be conscious.

A good way to measure consciousness is how much alcohol is in your blood, anyone else?
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Old 15th August 2019, 06:45 AM   #126
KaffiMann is offline KaffiMann  Norway
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There is nothing without conciousness, existence must be observed
... I do remember one time when I was younger, about 17 years ago, I had way too much to drink. Not absolutely certain of the % and time involved, but fairly certain it was around 0.7 liters of 80% in under two hours. My mind was absolutely clear, but I remember having to crawl on the sidewalk because my legs failed me. Got in someones car, they drove me home.
I managed to get into bed somehow, and after a few minutes staring at the ceiling suddenly feel my stomach turning, completely unable to even turn my head. I was desperatly trying to figure out how to move, but it was impossible. Being unable to breathe with my mouth, nose and throat clogged completely, I passed out absolutely certain there would be no tomorrow.

No idea what happened, maybe I eventually had some cramps or spasms of sorts.

Not sure if alcohol content is the best way to measure consciousness, do not know how it can be measured.

It is your perception of what is around you, not about ones ability to move or not.
Even with advanced machines in a hospital, it can sometimes be hard to measure if people in specific conditions have some measure of consciousness. If you're in a fog of pain and they add another drug induced haze on top of that, I know for a fact that some people have been deemed unconscious and "lost cases" because the doctors could get no response. Doctors are people too, they can fail just like everyone else.
Then someone else comes along and spots a medical condition that needed to be accounted for, some slight adjustments to IV cocktail and a few hours later the patient gains enough capacity to react again.

I hope this is not going to far, but it is related to topic.
Very interested if there is some way to measure actual consciousness.

Most people spend their focus on whatever feels the most immediate concern, if you are in very high pain you have a hard time even recognizing what is around you, much less reacting to some idiot snapping fingers at you.

My late uncle had some funny things to say, he worked in a prison. And sometimes he brought a really ridiculously big flashlight to subdue completely apeshit crazy inmates, but not like most people think:
"Get a bright enough high power beam of light in someones face, they get so blinded they can't even hear!"

If one of your senses is completely overloaded, you will lose the ability to use most other senses, does not mean you are unconscious.
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Old 15th August 2019, 11:30 AM   #127
diyiggy is offline diyiggy
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Maybe phenomenology is the thing to read as well, Husserl, Heidegger and so on ?

Or if you come from show business, go to the psychanalist, lol, direct relationship between the deepbess of your soul and the deepness of your pocket squared to the length of the cure

It s fascinating to look at consciousness as a collective thing that rules ours individual identity sometimes ...often
As a survival gift, consciousness works well for close things in time then evoluate towards long term stratzgy as managing your job or created moral for instance. Perhaps consciousness becomes for a part something collective that is a non sense at the scale of the individual, something that is allienating oneself? I don t know... in the same time knowledge is a legacy...but many animals have to learn from their parents how to hunt and so on. I see consciousness has a patern of life evolution without putting in it any human quality resulting from egocentrism. We want answers and there is maybe just only uncertainity (is it a english word ?... uncertain ET if you prefer)a
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