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Tube brightness, darkness, fullness, etc.
Tube brightness, darkness, fullness, etc.
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Old 17th July 2019, 12:10 AM   #21
TonyTecson is offline TonyTecson  Philippines
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Tube brightness, darkness, fullness, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by analog_sa View Post
You know, or are you just saying it to pacify the engineering types here?

How can tubes not have sound when everything else does? Perhaps you should rather ask these questions about passive components which for the lack of transconductance are much simpler to examine.

Why does a short piece of silver wire sound different to copper or gold? Apart from handwaving i have never seen any sensible suggestion of why this may be. The engineering types jump straight into denialism as the easiest way out.
tubes have a sound when plugged into its socket and the amp powered up..
otherwise if you drop them on the floor and broke they make horrible sounds and get you to cringe....

do you know how designers come up with tube operating points? what plate current? what plate voltage? unless you know this, your knowledge of tubes is just limited rolling them and listen to how the sound changes...
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Old 17th July 2019, 02:07 AM   #22
gabdx is offline gabdx  Canada
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I love how many here make fun of 'tube rollers'. tube rolling makes a bigger difference than finding the 'sweet spot'.

I could measure the THD difference with 6sn7 and there are serious studies on different brands THD.

Moreover, section matching is making a tremendous difference and those nos tubes had some sections matching that are splendid sounding, a true revelation...

Vacuum Tube Manual: RCA 1940 Vacuum Tube Design : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

I am sure there is a more recent version of teh vacuum tube design, it address all the factors, from glass to soldering, to metal alloys, composition and melting.

No wonder NOS tubes are super good in a time of high competition for producing the nice sounding ones.
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Old 17th July 2019, 02:45 AM   #23
TonyTecson is offline TonyTecson  Philippines
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Tube brightness, darkness, fullness, etc.
that is why i am fascinated by tv tubes, their cathodes contain original materials used in the old days....they are not faked, there are millions and millions of them..
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Old 17th July 2019, 11:23 AM   #24
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by analog_sa
Why does a short piece of silver wire sound different to copper or gold?
Why does it sound the same when the listener does not know what colour the wire is?

Quote:
Originally Posted by samsdad
what is it between two different pairs of 6922s that makes such a difference?
In a non-feedback circuit:
transconductance
optimum bias point
anode impedance
amplification factor
internal capacitances
details of characteristic curves
cathode emission
shot noise
excess noise
flicker noise
popcorn noise
microphony
leakage paths
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Old 17th July 2019, 05:23 PM   #25
samsdad is offline samsdad
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Thanks. I’m gonna guess, then, that different manufacturers/brands aim for a certain range within the acceptable parameters some of these and that’s why one brand consistently “sounds brighter”, etc. over another.
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Old 17th July 2019, 06:45 PM   #26
gabdx is offline gabdx  Canada
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kinda, each tube type is a standard design, brands use different vacuum force, different metal, techniques, coatings, armature, it has all impacts, on a discriminable level.

old tubes got the materials correct, a tube is a lot more than just some metal placed in a vacuum.

read the link to vacuum tube design from RCA.
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Old 17th July 2019, 07:06 PM   #27
dhaen is offline dhaen  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabdx View Post
....
read the link to vacuum tube design from RCA.
Can't emphasise this enough, it's a fantastic trip though all the processes and solutions to the difficulties in manufacture.
There is more knowledge in there than all the posts on diyaudio.
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Old 17th July 2019, 07:47 PM   #28
samsdad is offline samsdad
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I’ll take a look, thanks for the link.
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Old 17th July 2019, 08:24 PM   #29
schiirrn is offline schiirrn  Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabdx View Post
No wonder NOS tubes are super good in a time of high competition for producing the nice sounding ones.
There was no competition to produce "the nice sounding ones". There was competition to sell parts in quantity that meet the requirements of manufacturers of electronic gear. A RCA tube radio from 1963 is no different than a Dell soundbar from 2003 in that regard.

Let's have a look at the RCA receiving tube manual. The example circuits in there are simple and cheap to build and work without fuss. Take a 12AX7 tube: high gain, low current, low transconductance -> perfect to (mass produce) cheapish (for the time) appliances.

Sidenote: tubes have certain characteristics. If a tube's measured values are close enough to say an EL34 it qualifies to be labeled an EL34.
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Old 17th July 2019, 08:25 PM   #30
TheGimp is offline TheGimp  United States
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A better link, easy to download.

https://americanradiohistory.com/Arc...esign-1940.pdf
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