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Tube brightness, darkness, fullness, etc.
Tube brightness, darkness, fullness, etc.
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Old 16th July 2019, 03:31 PM   #11
wiseoldtech is offline wiseoldtech  United States
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In a nutshell that is basically what I explained earlier - the tubes depend on their "under-chassis" components for operation. People tend to "tube roll" and play around if they aren't satisfied with a certain type of performance from a tube amp, when the real controlling culprits are under the chassis.
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Old 16th July 2019, 05:58 PM   #12
analog_sa is online now analog_sa  Europe
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Tube brightness, darkness, fullness, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by samsdad View Post
Now, I know that tubes per se don’t “sound” at all
You know, or are you just saying it to pacify the engineering types here?

How can tubes not have sound when everything else does? Perhaps you should rather ask these questions about passive components which for the lack of transconductance are much simpler to examine.

Why does a short piece of silver wire sound different to copper or gold? Apart from handwaving i have never seen any sensible suggestion of why this may be. The engineering types jump straight into denialism as the easiest way out.
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Old 16th July 2019, 08:34 PM   #13
samsdad is offline samsdad
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Point taken on the sound of tubes.

Perhaps I’m focusing on them since, at least for me, I can’t unplug and plug in a different resistor as easily as I can a tube.

As far as silver wire, it seems lost to me on my setup. Unless I’m mistaken, isn’t there tens—if not hundreds—of feet of copper wire in the voice coil of my Klipsch woofers? While my amp’s circuitry is indeed comprised of silver wire, after it goes to the terminals, everything past them is copper. I will admit, however, that the best speaker wire I’ve tried is single conductor copper wire I got over at Home Depot that’s used for doorbells. I think 50’ cost like $8.00. (My doorbell sounds great by the way.) I was at one point considering silver speaker wire, but thought it foolish to spend the money on something that went straight to a long run of copper voice coils.
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Old 16th July 2019, 08:43 PM   #14
gabdx is offline gabdx  Canada
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some of us use tube to have 0 feedback designs. I do like almost to 0 feedback designs.

The less feedback, the more you will hear the tube differences.

I would not called the circuit flawed just because the feedback is low... there are clear advantages to 0 feedback circuits.

Do you prefer the JJ... i like JJ over harmonix.

Why keeping the door shut to old stock tubes? some used tube are too super good, tested.

I don't think you will find new stock of ecc88 which sound as good as holland amperex gold pins... as soon as I used it in my phono I knew it could not get better than this. As low THD as the best feedback transistor phonos, with the quality of tube sound.

Same thing with 6sn7, the JAN which are not very costly are as good as other super costly tubes and the new production from the best (except psavane treasures, not tried yet) are far from good as the nos.

There are exceptions, the ecc99 is a new tube developed by JJ and it is very good, a true bargain, if you want to ditch all the nos to the garbage, use ecc99 all they way.
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Old 16th July 2019, 09:19 PM   #15
samsdad is offline samsdad
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Supposedly my amps have 0 global NFB (Decware Torii Jr. and SE84CKC). I thought I preferred the EHX 6922s over the JJs at first, but found something much more involving about the JJs that made the EHX or Gold Lions sort of clinical. On the other hand, JJ 6922s into JJ 6ca7s or EL34s seemed too veiled, and the EHX 6ca7s brought back some of that transparency.

I’m forgoing the NOS due to a fear of loving some combination and then not being able to replicate it years down the road without spending a lot of money. I fell for the Phillips 5ar4 metal base thing and realized after trying the modern day JJ version, I couldn’t tell the difference. I’m sure it’s just the voltage drop, after having tried brown base versions, Matsushita built RCAs, etc. and seeing the difference when rebiasing.

Which brings me back to my original question: what is it between two different pairs of 6922s that makes such a difference? Transconductance? What governs transconductance? Certainly not the micas, or support rods, getter shape, etc.
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Old 16th July 2019, 09:29 PM   #16
rayma is offline rayma  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by analog_sa View Post
Why does a short piece of silver wire sound different to copper or gold?
Could be related to the solder joints. It might be interesting to compare
soldered terminations with clamped ones.
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Old 16th July 2019, 10:01 PM   #17
gabdx is offline gabdx  Canada
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samsdad, thanks for the reply, you explained well, providing the amp type,

the differences are way beyond my understanding.

i will send you a link to how tubes are made. you might find explanations but not enough to choose the good tubes by visual inspection i may fear

when i return from swimming in the lake (I do this everyday, it helps my audio system to sound good)
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Last edited by gabdx; 16th July 2019 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 16th July 2019, 11:02 PM   #18
JMFahey is offline JMFahey  Argentina
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You are ignoring the sound of the cleaning lady´s underwear colour.

Of course you are all deaf, at least compared to me.

Or worse ... maybe you are .... Engineers!!!
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Old 17th July 2019, 12:01 AM   #19
TonyTecson is offline TonyTecson  Philippines
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Tube brightness, darkness, fullness, etc.
differences between tubes and even triode sections inside of the envelope are what made tube rolling work....

i doubt circuit designers wanted that....

different tube mechanical builds, cathode material constructions. made sure rolling worked...

a look at tube data sheets and plate curves, you will see how tube characteristics vary with plate voltage and cathode currents and grid voltages...and the curves are not linear nor a straight line, they are bent all over the place...

i want my tube amp builds sound great at get go, hitting the sweet spot and not to be helped along by tube rolling....

tube rolling to me is depressing thing....
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Old 17th July 2019, 12:02 AM   #20
TonyTecson is offline TonyTecson  Philippines
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Tube brightness, darkness, fullness, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayma View Post
Could be related to the solder joints. It might be interesting to compare
soldered terminations with clamped ones.
ot between a tarnished wire and a solder plated one....
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