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Old 12th July 2019, 03:17 AM   #71
Cal Weldon is offline Cal Weldon  Canada
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Snake oil for cars engine
To condense what Chris said in post 54, and something I was taught when multi grades were introduced...
10W-30:
Cranks like a 10
Protects like a 30
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Old 12th July 2019, 03:27 AM   #72
invaderzim is offline invaderzim  United States
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Originally Posted by leadbelly View Post
Well, so much to say, hard to know what to emphasize.

AFAIK changing oil more frequently does pay rewards, but you get into diminishing returns where you are wasting time and money. If you change your oil yourself I would recommend doing more frequently than 20kkm/2yrs.

Don't follow dated recommendations, modern high additive diesel oils are different enough to change old guidelines.

Oil is aged by shear-thinning, condensation, fuel contamination to name a few. That's why it's not just a marketing ploy to recommend frequent changes.

You can access a tremendous amount of information by Googling, there are hobbyists who pay for their own oil lab tests so you would only find that type of information in a forum or blog.
Years ago I worked at a farm equipment shop that sent out oil samples on everything whenever it was serviced, including their fleet of pickups. I was into all the oil additives and talked the boss into trying a bunch in the trucks. All the oil sample reports stayed stayed in the same basic range no matter what additive we had in with the oil. The old trucks showed no reduction in wear and the new stuff stayed just as clean. I called the place we used for the samples and his advice was to save our money on that stuff and even cut back on oil samplings from the pickups and just change the oil frequently in them. Basically just what you said.

In the bigger equipment we needed to know if bearings were wearing or if there was an issue that was letting dust get into the air intake so they were still crucial on them. Because one of those failing in the middle of the busy season would be very bad.
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Old 12th July 2019, 03:32 AM   #73
chris719 is offline chris719  United States
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Snake oil for cars engine
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Originally Posted by invaderzim View Post
Years ago I worked at a farm equipment shop that sent out oil samples on everything whenever it was serviced, including their fleet of pickups. I was into all the oil additives and talked the boss into trying a bunch in the trucks. All the oil sample reports stayed stayed in the same basic range no matter what additive we had in with the oil. The old trucks showed no reduction in wear and the new stuff stayed just as clean. I called the place we used for the samples and his advice was to save our money on that stuff and even cut back on oil samplings from the pickups and just change the oil frequently in them. Basically just what you said.

In the bigger equipment we needed to know if bearings were wearing or if there was an issue that was letting dust get into the air intake so they were still crucial on them. Because one of those failing in the middle of the busy season would be very bad.
Did you guys use Blackstone for testing? I've done it a few times, but sometimes I wonder how good of a test it is. I never questioned it until I saw one or two examples on forums of BMW S65 engines that spun rod bearings yet had pristine Blackstone report histories. You would have expected elevated lead in the cars with early non-RoHS bearings, or finally copper once that got worn away. I know it's even harder to pick up now that the bearings in many cars are made of some tin / aluminum alloy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal Weldon View Post
To condense what Chris said in post 54, and something I was taught when multi grades were introduced...
10W-30:
Cranks like a 10
Protects like a 30
Yep, an elegant way to put it.

Last edited by chris719; 12th July 2019 at 03:38 AM.
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Old 12th July 2019, 04:06 AM   #74
diyiggy is offline diyiggy
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Originally Posted by mountainman bob View Post
There’s nothing quite like the smell of blendzall and VP on a Sunday morning to get you going!

Sure, if I only could get back my old MG with its YACCO smell on small green roads
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Old 12th July 2019, 11:55 AM   #75
kevinahcc20 is offline kevinahcc20  United States
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Originally Posted by mountainman bob View Post
When big oil started sneaking the zddp out we noticed...
ZDDP was not "snuck out". As more capable catalysts emerged ZDDP was found to act as what is termed a catalyst "poison" by having its combustion products physically trapped in the catalyst washcoat (the microscopically thin layer containing precious metals and rare earth promoters) reducing catalyst effectiveness. So while not as gross a catalyst poison as tetra ethyl lead gasoline additives, which were phased down dramatically in the early 1970s to allow catalysts to be introduced and then fully eliminated in subsequent decades, ZDDP followed the same exit path.
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Old 12th July 2019, 12:06 PM   #76
mountainman bob is online now mountainman bob  United States
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It was snuck out as in it was there and then it was not, no explanations no warnings.

Trying to get adpack info from the bigger oil companies was like pulling teeth.

Whatever ‘comparable’ additive was used (titanium?) paled in comparison.

As usual smoke blown where there’s no sunshine.
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Old 12th July 2019, 12:23 PM   #77
kevinahcc20 is offline kevinahcc20  United States
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So I suppose you expected banner headlines in the mainstream press on this arcane change to oil formulations? For those of us then working the problem what you describe as an overnight coup took years of cooperative testing and analysis which was very much out in the open, albeit not of much interest to the general public. Of course it was a terrible decision as we now see how car engines are just not as durable as they used to be. Back in the '60s I'd help Dad change oil every 1,000 miles and a car making it to 100K without the heads coming off was noteworthy. Now we all have friends and relatives chugging around in vehicles past 200K with only routine maintenance. As the wicked witch proclaimed, "Oh, what a world, what a world!"
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Old 12th July 2019, 12:33 PM   #78
mountainman bob is online now mountainman bob  United States
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When they took lead out of gas it was certainly shouted from the mountaintops as it could possibly damage vehicles that depended on it.

Zddp had been in oil with great sucesss since the 1930’s. All of a sudden it goes away causes many people mechanical failure, money, time, stress, etc.

I for one would have appreciated a heads up....BUT, that would have involved conceding that the new adpack was not as good in some situations......go figure!
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Old 12th July 2019, 01:28 PM   #79
TheGimp is online now TheGimp  United States
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The whole lead as a lubricant for valves is very suspect as Amaco was selling lead free gasoline from the 40s on. There wold have been law suits against Amaco if it really was detrimental to engines.

I hear this this same mantra on the Harley Davidson forums for older motorcycles (I own a 1975 XLCH). the loss of tetra ethyl lead does not cause engine damage.

The tetra ethyl lead was in gasoline to prevent detonation, nothing else.
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Old 12th July 2019, 06:58 PM   #80
kevinahcc20 is offline kevinahcc20  United States
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TheGimp is correct that TEL was there strictly as a cheap octane improver. While it did boost octane cheaply TEL had many, many downsides including shortened sparkplug life, exhaust system corrosion, and worst of all spreading a poison widely throughout the environment. Regular grade gasoline was widely dosed at 3g/gallon so with gasoline consumption then at about 8 million barrels per day we were injecting hundreds of tons of lead per day into the environment. It is conjectured that average IQs should have increased by 5 or 6 points by eliminating this central nervous system poison.
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