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Snake oil for cars engine
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Old 11th July 2019, 03:31 PM   #61
mountainman bob is offline mountainman bob  United States
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Conversation moved towards performance......i voiced my opinion from a pure performance standpoint.
Cat converters are a hindrance.. if you know how to properly tune a engine for optimum fuel burn it will run cleaner producing more power than it's smog controlled equivalent......problem is not too many people know,want to know,or care.
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Old 11th July 2019, 03:55 PM   #62
leadbelly is offline leadbelly  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainman bob View Post
Conversation moved towards performance......i voiced my opinion from a pure performance standpoint.
Cat converters are a hindrance.. if you know how to properly tune a engine for optimum fuel burn it will run cleaner producing more power than it's smog controlled equivalent......problem is not too many people know,want to know,or care.
That's just ridiculous. You can't meet emissions standards without a cat. And AFAIK you can't tune a gasoline engine to be "clean". You can tune it to minimize COx or you can tune it to minimize NOx, but these would be very different tunes; opposed in fact.
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Old 11th July 2019, 04:21 PM   #63
kevinahcc20 is offline kevinahcc20  United States
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Yes, there are more myths floating around in the field of automotive technology than any other, with the exception of audio. In the nearly forty years of my career as an engineer working on emissions at GM light duty vehicle pollutant emissions levels were reduced by about 3 orders of magnitude for HC and NOx. Of that perhaps 1/2 of the first order of magnitude reduction came with engine tuning prior to catalysts and all of the rest was accomplished with refinement of catalyst technology. There were huge improvements to engine controls focused on precise management of air:fuel ratio, but that was all about feeding the catalyst a gas mixture that it could best digest.
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Old 11th July 2019, 05:15 PM   #64
mountainman bob is offline mountainman bob  United States
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Originally Posted by leadbelly View Post
That's just ridiculous. You can't meet emissions standards without a cat. And AFAIK you can't tune a gasoline engine to be "clean". You can tune it to minimize COx or you can tune it to minimize NOx, but these would be very different tunes; opposed in fact.
You can and I have, passed emissions test with stripped vehicles in fact I had to go roundy round with the inspection station but it boiled down to passing requirements.....this was in the nineties in CT.

Things are probably more strict nowadays but where i'm at now is inspection free.....things run so much better desmogged.

I'm sure there will be some uproar from the huggers but hey
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Old 11th July 2019, 06:33 PM   #65
diyiggy is offline diyiggy
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More strict indeed... oil must meet many needs that are hardly compatibles: engine cooling, proofness, right viscosity for external parts like turbo chargers and chain distribution (revival!), engine longevity...without compression loss !



I finally read API & european ACEA about oils and post treatment exhaust devices !


My car needs 5W40 and as usual the oil brand label. With ACEA my model is B.4 (diesel) rated equivalent to c.h ( & s.m gazoline) from API (no particules filter, just catalyst, oil for diesel with the accurate compression items...).
There are no retro compatibility with ACEA C 1 to 5 which is the evolution for posttreatment devices and low emission with xW30 and less SAE grade ! My car will be less protected from motor egging with xW30 than the asked 5W40; indeed the xW30 when hot will be too thin and especially when the motor becomes old. Oil cooling will be less good and not sure the oil pump and the turbo doesn't need more viscosity to protect their moving parts between two starts.



I could putt 0W40, but what about oil pump & turbo longevity ??? There are few 0w40 that are not ACEA C grade (so ACEA B4 proof that is better for my engine protection) but which are thinner in the API system : for instance API s.n / c.i instead the s.l/c.h that meets the oils approved by the brand of the car.


I will follow the good advices given here (many thanks) and glue to the manual of my car and labeled oil spec by the brandl ! And after 150 000 km I will not putt a 0w50 for example... Hoping electrical will have soon a low price enough and increased autonomy... or better will give up cars that are too much fragile, full of cpators and still pollute!
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Old 11th July 2019, 06:53 PM   #66
TheGimp is offline TheGimp  United States
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Originally Posted by phase View Post
That tv show was likely referring to tooling and automation enabling tighter gaps in body panels etc. not internal engine clearances.

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Look up recommendations for oil on North American Toyota’s vs those in Ireland and Australia, can choose a vehicle that is sold with the same engine in all those areas and then check the specs from the manufacturer; one says to use 0W-XX, while the other says 5W-XX.
No, these were specifically about engine assembly. Tighter ring end gap tolerences, tighter tolerances on cylinder to piston fit, etc.

Oil specification differences from country to country are most likely country specific requirements (EPA in the USA).
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Old 11th July 2019, 08:29 PM   #67
phase is offline phase  United States
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That’s very true that straight 30w oil has less bs than the other oils.

But I’m sure someone will disagree!


The Acura was much older than the K series, but thanks for the rundown on piston liners, had those in my Alfa’s.
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Old 11th July 2019, 09:34 PM   #68
diyiggy is offline diyiggy
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I assume EPA is choosing gaz emission targett dictated by technologies able to be mass produced by car companies and their suppliers ? Or targetts will not be reached by industries.

Techs being the same in US, CE, Japan as their health requirement (more or less), oils should be very near.

I saw whatever the SAE and the country, main brands have oil products that are approved by the whole cars manufacters. an Oil in its SAE range can be approved in the same time by european, japan and american cars ! For instance a 5w40 labelled on the same bottle for: Chrysler + Porsche + Fiat+ Mazda o....(each having letters or numbers for their label according to the requirement of their engines, post treatment devices needed to targett health gov. agencies requirement).

Norms should be close in these countries as gazoline and diesel have not sulfur in it anymore, so same fuels? At least for cars as I don't know for trucks and others Massey-Ferguson toys.

I don't know for South-America and russia, just read China, Maleysia and India are less restrictive about polution (think China will soon cop the main western norms). Chemistry is the same everywhere in the World and I imagine oil industries are not so many as their additives suppliers.

You may find more BS in most moderns oils cause additives and formulation for gaz post-treatment devices ? Maybe what you winn with these oils and NOX, CO2 reduction, you loose it on the other side with different bad emissions from additives growing numbers, as blue-aqua tanks in cars ? While I'm not sure old castor oils were good to breath !
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Old 11th July 2019, 11:44 PM   #69
mountainman bob is offline mountainman bob  United States
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While I'm not sure old castor oils were good to breath !
There’s nothing quite like the smell of blendzall and VP on a Sunday morning to get you going!
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Old 12th July 2019, 02:44 AM   #70
mountainman bob is offline mountainman bob  United States
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Originally Posted by bentoronto View Post

Stated differently, can anybody point to trustworthy evidence that it makes any difference between the better and the worser oils for longevity? Or performance?

B.
When big oil started sneaking the zddp out we noticed cam wear (solid lifter) on the circle track cars that never happened before (somewhere around mid 1990’s early 2000’s?)took awhile to figure it out but finally did through oil analysis then research. As long as the oil we used had 1400-1500 ppm zddp starting out it was ok.

Last edited by mountainman bob; 12th July 2019 at 03:11 AM.
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