737 Max

traderbam · 13th March 2019, 05:38 PM

Two nearly brand new planes. Both lost control shortly after take-off. Ethiopian pilot very experienced and had post Lion Air training. But still couldn't control the plane.

BA, American Airlines and Southwest Airlines denying any safety issue. Almost the whole world has banned the planes, even Canada now. The US and FAA won't do anything.

According to the WSJ the American officials don't want Ethiopia to send the flight recorders to London for examination but straight to the National Transportation Safety Board in the United States.

Does Boeing already know what the fault is? I wonder.

Cal Weldon · 13th March 2019, 05:42 PM

All: please remain civil and do not let emotions guide your post. This is an audio site after all.
Thank you.

leadbelly · 13th March 2019, 05:47 PM

I am already annoyed by this topic. It's gotten so much traction on social media by those same people who think they can read a couple of articles and become subject matter experts.

I do wonder a couple of things. It sounds like it is the MCAS. If it is really easily turned off, why not just order your pilots to turn it off instead of taking the huge step of grounding? I think maybe the answer is Boeing is not really sure the "off" button works fully, or public hype just turned the issue political and science doesn't matter anymore. The truth will come out in the lawsuits.

gpauk · 13th March 2019, 06:08 PM

Brand new plane falls out of the air twice. Of course it has to be grounded until we understand why.

traderbam · 13th March 2019, 06:31 PM

From the NYT:

Quote:

The F.A.A. has cautioned against drawing too many similarities between the crashes in Ethiopia and Indonesia before the investigation is completed. It could still be weeks before investigators are able to point to the likely cause of the latest crash.

The two events are undoubtedly similar. You would think the FAA would be the bastion of passenger safety and err on caution rather than waiting weeks to find out for sure?

Michael Bean · 13th March 2019, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by traderbam

From the NYT:
The two events are undoubtedly similar. You would think the FAA would be the bastion of passenger safety and err on caution rather than waiting weeks to find out for sure?

The current representative entities of the US government don't seem to have People safety as one of their concerns...as shown by their non-action on this issue (and other issues as well).

Mike

gpauk · 13th March 2019, 06:56 PM

I know someone who worked on the Dreamliner - he was ah, somewhat surprised how easy the FAA stuff was considering all the new tech.

traderbam · 13th March 2019, 08:15 PM

Boeing have now grounded all 737 Max'es.

Bonsai · 13th March 2019, 09:47 PM

I read today that there had been 2 complaints logged by US pilots who had problems controlling the craft over the last few months.

An airliner is an incredibly complex system - hopefully they'll get to the bottom of it soon.

I imagine there are 100's of thousands of lines of code running all the flight controls, stability etc.

Audio amp feedback loops are simple . . .

traderbam · 14th March 2019, 01:06 PM

I have some experience of software complexity and believe me it is very easy to overlook a corner-case and extremely difficult to "test-out" defects in an entire system as a whole.

I read in the NYT that Boeing said they had a software update ready in January but the US gov shutdown impeded the FAA from approving the update. So Boeing is sort of blaming the FAA and ultimately Trump for delaying the update. However, that is no excuse for not grounding the planes back in January or earlier if Boeing actually knew the cause of the Lion Air crash.

To me it is very likely not pilot incompetence. Not twice. On both flights the pilots fought the plane for some minutes before it crashed straight down. It's almost as if after a few minutes of conflicting commands the plane gave up and crashed itself. The pilots would not have given up.

13th March 2019, 05:38 PM	#1
traderbam diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Earth	737 Max Two nearly brand new planes. Both lost control shortly after take-off. Ethiopian pilot very experienced and had post Lion Air training. But still couldn't control the plane. BA, American Airlines and Southwest Airlines denying any safety issue. Almost the whole world has banned the planes, even Canada now. The US and FAA won't do anything. According to the WSJ the American officials don't want Ethiopia to send the flight recorders to London for examination but straight to the National Transportation Safety Board in the United States. Does Boeing already know what the fault is? I wonder.

13th March 2019, 05:42 PM	#2
Cal Weldon Speakerholic diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Near Vancouver	All: please remain civil and do not let emotions guide your post. This is an audio site after all. Thank you. __________________ http://www.calweldonconsulting.ca/

13th March 2019, 05:47 PM	#3
leadbelly diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Calgary, Alberta	I am already annoyed by this topic. It's gotten so much traction on social media by those same people who think they can read a couple of articles and become subject matter experts. I do wonder a couple of things. It sounds like it is the MCAS. If it is really easily turned off, why not just order your pilots to turn it off instead of taking the huge step of grounding? I think maybe the answer is Boeing is not really sure the "off" button works fully, or public hype just turned the issue political and science doesn't matter anymore. The truth will come out in the lawsuits. __________________ No one wants advice - only corroboration. John Steinbeck

13th March 2019, 09:47 PM	#9
Bonsai diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Europe	I read today that there had been 2 complaints logged by US pilots who had problems controlling the craft over the last few months. An airliner is an incredibly complex system - hopefully they'll get to the bottom of it soon. I imagine there are 100's of thousands of lines of code running all the flight controls, stability etc. Audio amp feedback loops are simple . . . __________________ Bonsai X-Altra MC/MM preamp http://hifisonix.com/x-altra-phono-eq-preamp/ Ground Loops http://hifisonix.com/ground-loops/

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13th March 2019, 06:08 PM	#4
gpauk diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: NE Scotland	Brand new plane falls out of the air twice. Of course it has to be grounded until we understand why.

13th March 2019, 06:56 PM	#7
gpauk diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: NE Scotland	I know someone who worked on the Dreamliner - he was ah, somewhat surprised how easy the FAA stuff was considering all the new tech.

13th March 2019, 08:15 PM	#8
traderbam diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Earth	Boeing have now grounded all 737 Max'es.

14th March 2019, 01:06 PM	#10
traderbam diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Earth	I have some experience of software complexity and believe me it is very easy to overlook a corner-case and extremely difficult to "test-out" defects in an entire system as a whole. I read in the NYT that Boeing said they had a software update ready in January but the US gov shutdown impeded the FAA from approving the update. So Boeing is sort of blaming the FAA and ultimately Trump for delaying the update. However, that is no excuse for not grounding the planes back in January or earlier if Boeing actually knew the cause of the Lion Air crash. To me it is very likely not pilot incompetence. Not twice. On both flights the pilots fought the plane for some minutes before it crashed straight down. It's almost as if after a few minutes of conflicting commands the plane gave up and crashed itself. The pilots would not have given up.