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Old Yesterday, 02:02 PM   #611
gpauk is offline gpauk  Scotland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avtech23 View Post
No, not at all. Has it yet been disclosed who actually wrote the flight control software - not all aircraft manufacturers develop their own for every model, and there are several large manufacturers of AFCS.
Even if a subbie did the code, it's still Boeing's responsibility.
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Old Yesterday, 02:38 PM   #612
Charles Darwin is offline Charles Darwin  United Kingdom
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1. What gpauk said.

2. The Boeing CEO has effectively admitted responsibility.

So yes, totally Boeing's fault.

There is nothing in the public domain which does not point towards Boeing and those who might know more than is currently public either also blame or are actively suing Boeing.
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Old Yesterday, 03:03 PM   #613
billshurv is online now billshurv  United Kingdom
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Here it gets tricky. Could the pilots have recovered and returned to base? On this thread we have been told yes. A major accident is an unfortunate stack up of errors and until the final report comes in next year we might not know how many are stacked there.


Not saying Boeing do not have to get their house in order, but that its not as simple as 'totally Boeings fault'.
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Old Yesterday, 03:23 PM   #614
Bonsai is offline Bonsai  Europe
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Originally Posted by gpauk View Post
+1000!

I once worked for someone who's kept saying "it's just a bit of code" every time they added weeks worth of new features to a product...
We used to call that 'creeping elegance'

Its one of the reasons in the auto industry you have a design freeze date. If you don't, the project will never get started.


I agree with your 'its just a bit of code' - people have no idea how complex these things are. I don't know of course, but I can only suspect that there are thousands or 100's of thousands of lines of code (C+ perhaps?) to run the flight control system.
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Old Yesterday, 03:37 PM   #615
traderbam is online now traderbam  Europe
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Writing and managing software is something I happen to know a lot about. Complexity in software is cheap to create and almost invisible to see. "Emergent behaviour" is another term sometimes used instead of the more accurate "unforeseen side-effect".

Anyhow, this reminds me that a couple of weeks ago I was in a major brand car rental office in Hamilton, Canada. I needed to get internet access so they let me sit at one of their PCs. It was running Windows 95. I kid you not.
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Old Yesterday, 03:55 PM   #616
billshurv is online now billshurv  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by Bonsai View Post
. I don't know of course, but I can only suspect that there are thousands or 100's of thousands of lines of code (C+ perhaps?) to run the flight control system.

On the Typhoon program all code had to be written in Ada. For one units processor there was no Ada complier, but Ada had to written and was and was hand compiled....
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Old Today, 02:13 PM   #617
Charles Darwin is offline Charles Darwin  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by billshurv View Post
Not saying Boeing do not have to get their house in order, but that its not as simple as 'totally Boeings fault'.
Ever since Dennis Muilenburg admitted responsibility it is exactly as simple as 'totally Boeings fault'. I don't really understand why that part is still being discussed at all.

That said I do commend Dennis for doing that.
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Old Today, 02:17 PM   #618
billshurv is online now billshurv  United Kingdom
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It would appear out outlooks and understandings are divergent enough that its really not worth trying to come to a consensus on that point.
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Old Today, 02:18 PM   #619
Bonsai is offline Bonsai  Europe
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Originally Posted by billshurv View Post
On the Typhoon program all code had to be written in Ada. For one units processor there was no Ada complier, but Ada had to written and was and was hand compiled....
The mind boggles.

I am remembering how Toyota was dismembered in a US court a few years ago for crappy software . . . and the mind boggles just as much. You’d think people would learn from stuff like this.
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