I was having a wander around the local retail 'hifi' shop today and couldn't help but notice that every amp of every kind on the shelf (HT, Power etc) comprised a bulky black box with maybe a black plastic display for the top half.
Is there no value in having an aesthetically pleasing design?
Assuming that the large retail sector / manufacturers have carried out market research ad nauseum, does that imply that the general population doesn't care for anything but the ubiquitous black box?
Is there no value in having an aesthetically pleasing design?
Assuming that the large retail sector / manufacturers have carried out market research ad nauseum, does that imply that the general population doesn't care for anything but the ubiquitous black box?
The "Ugly Black Box" is designed to look businesslike while disappearing in the room while listening so as not to be a distraction.
There are good looking audio gear, maybe if your local HiFi store doesn't have any, then you should be looking for a new reseller.
The prejudice to overcome is consumers who believe that "dressing up" audio is done to cover up poor internals, or that given a pretty version and an ugly version, you can buy the ugly one for a few dollars or a few hundred dollars less, and HiFi dollars are precious.
Some manufacturers have earned a reputation for quality in and out. They tend to be a bit more in comparison to other manufacturers similar gear, and I believe a good store should offer both and let the customer choose. I'm thinking of Japanese brands like Luxman, Accuphase, etc (for example) or offerings from elsewhere.
The truth is most Audiophiles want the money spent inside while most wives want something you can't see at all. There is a compromise in there somewhere, but it's up to the individual to find where it is.
A store that offers only one side of the options isn't really a HiFi store in my opinion as there are many attractive audio brands out there, so a lack of lines to bring in can't be the reason it's not on the showroom floor.
The Sugden example earlier in this thread is not unattractive to my eye, but is definitely leaning towards the businesslike design language that some Audiophiles might like more than their partners who rule the home's asthetic. There is much more attractive gear available that would satisfy someone who is not into Audio.
There are good looking audio gear, maybe if your local HiFi store doesn't have any, then you should be looking for a new reseller.
The prejudice to overcome is consumers who believe that "dressing up" audio is done to cover up poor internals, or that given a pretty version and an ugly version, you can buy the ugly one for a few dollars or a few hundred dollars less, and HiFi dollars are precious.
Some manufacturers have earned a reputation for quality in and out. They tend to be a bit more in comparison to other manufacturers similar gear, and I believe a good store should offer both and let the customer choose. I'm thinking of Japanese brands like Luxman, Accuphase, etc (for example) or offerings from elsewhere.
The truth is most Audiophiles want the money spent inside while most wives want something you can't see at all. There is a compromise in there somewhere, but it's up to the individual to find where it is.
A store that offers only one side of the options isn't really a HiFi store in my opinion as there are many attractive audio brands out there, so a lack of lines to bring in can't be the reason it's not on the showroom floor.
The Sugden example earlier in this thread is not unattractive to my eye, but is definitely leaning towards the businesslike design language that some Audiophiles might like more than their partners who rule the home's asthetic. There is much more attractive gear available that would satisfy someone who is not into Audio.
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It's probably to do with coordination, if they're all black and the same width your average consumer will be able to identify them as hi-fi products and group them all together. In a similar way, I'm able to recognise cars because they have a wheel on each corner and tend to follow each other on roads.
Amplifiers should be heard and not seen.
However, there is also the problem that 'creative' people show their 'creativity' by simply copying what every other 'creative' person is doing that year. The outside of amplifiers is 'designed' by 'creative' people, so they will tend to all look the same. The inside, of course, should be designed by real engineers and so should show more genuine creativity but this is not guaranteed.
However, there is also the problem that 'creative' people show their 'creativity' by simply copying what every other 'creative' person is doing that year. The outside of amplifiers is 'designed' by 'creative' people, so they will tend to all look the same. The inside, of course, should be designed by real engineers and so should show more genuine creativity but this is not guaranteed.
Do you know anything about creative people? Have you met any? Just curious ...... ToS
It used to be that HiFi manufacturers had a consistent "house" design that was recognizable. In the 1970's you could spot a Marantz or H/K or Pioneer or Yamaha or Sansui amp/receiver from across the room, they were distinctive. Many of them were also silver rather than black, but they had design cues that made one brand visually distinguishable from the others. These days there seems to be less of that.
I do, I have, are you really curious or just looking for an excuse (which you don't need BTW) to express your opinion?
My question was addressed to DF96. and yes, I am really curious about his perspective upon creativity, and what he means by use of the expression 'creative type'. For within the English vernacular it has certain connotations that are actually quite derogatory. Not that it bothers me all that much, but it does have a certain corrosive quality that gets in the way of conversational discourse.
Scott, I am quite sure that by being Welsh, you know everything there is to know creative design in audio.
ToS
So what? This is a discussion forum. What's your opinion on ugly black boxes? I'd be interested since you are artistic. BTW, I'm not Welsh, incase that has any relevance.
Having grown up with valve radio equipment, I believe the very components themselves create their own proven aesthetic. The problem with modern design is that because it is so much part of recent history, it is really quite difficult to understand as to whether it is any good or not - that is until when seen in retrospect. Really good designers are few and far between. It only takes one or two to define an Age.
Actually, 95% of all design is crap. What passes for innovation is more often a not so subtle regurgitation of pastiche past. When I look at most modern amplifier design it looks brutal, as we are living in brutal times ..... or so I feel. I tend to agree with DF96 about most amplifiers being so dire to look at, they are best heard and never seen.
I will give an example of really beautiful design - the FrugalHorn speaker enclosure. Everything about the way it looks comes directly from its perfect functional form. Aesthetically, it is close to genius - a very rare commodity, and immensely gratifying to see. It owes a lot to Russian Constructivism and the Bauhaus Movement, and as a classic piece of design it will be around for ever.
ToS
PS: Scott, I sincerely thought you were Welsh - my abject apologies ....... I'm not English by the way.
Actually, 95% of all design is crap. What passes for innovation is more often a not so subtle regurgitation of pastiche past. When I look at most modern amplifier design it looks brutal, as we are living in brutal times ..... or so I feel. I tend to agree with DF96 about most amplifiers being so dire to look at, they are best heard and never seen.
I will give an example of really beautiful design - the FrugalHorn speaker enclosure. Everything about the way it looks comes directly from its perfect functional form. Aesthetically, it is close to genius - a very rare commodity, and immensely gratifying to see. It owes a lot to Russian Constructivism and the Bauhaus Movement, and as a classic piece of design it will be around for ever.
ToS
PS: Scott, I sincerely thought you were Welsh - my abject apologies ....... I'm not English by the way.
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I recently started looking around at options to "dress up" the cases I'll be building some pre-amps, control electronics etc. into. I am specifically looking at using bamboo sheets to use as front and side cladding, and if the unit doesn't produce too much heat, the whole case. A basic sheet metal enclosure will still be used as the primary case for shielding purposes. (Mu metal and copper shielding is too expensive, though a simple Faraday cage would work well.)
There are many natural ways to stain the bamboo to what ever colour you might want it to be. This is then sealed off with bees wax or a good oil and you will have a beautiful case. This does take quite a bit of time to do, but is very rewarding. The Japanese have taken this type of thing to an art form, but the exotic woods used are pretty bloody expensive.
Of course there are also many other timbers available that are beautiful in their natural state. These can be coloured and sealed in many different ways of course.
There are many natural ways to stain the bamboo to what ever colour you might want it to be. This is then sealed off with bees wax or a good oil and you will have a beautiful case. This does take quite a bit of time to do, but is very rewarding. The Japanese have taken this type of thing to an art form, but the exotic woods used are pretty bloody expensive.
Of course there are also many other timbers available that are beautiful in their natural state. These can be coloured and sealed in many different ways of course.
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Yes I am curious, because if you have indeed spent any amount of time hanging out with the real deal, or what you refer to as 'creative types', then I fail to understand why you are so consistently negative within your associations of what constitutes genuine artistic achievement and creativity. Sorry, I want to respect you, and perhaps in return you could show a bit of it. Enough said.
Since we are talking about visual design of amplifiers, I do see why the Chinese have captured the market in cheap (and not so cheap) valve amplifiers in that there is a vast internal and international market for young middle class earners who want something that sounds good and looks like a status symbol. Why? because we are terrified of the future, and the past is easier to relate to. An example of this in the U.K. is the universal road sign for a speed camera, showing a bellows camera - literally a centuries old meme.
As for ugly black boxes, what else do we expect other than corporate mush as consumer product? It looks like a cultural insult because it is. The young deserve better.
ToS
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In my house, black is de rigueur for all audio equipment. This is down to my wife who doesn't really want to see the stuff!
In my man cave there is a riot of black, white, silver, gold, polychromatic dark green, teak and mahogany. My wife allows me to see this stuff as often as I like!
I wonder why?
In my man cave there is a riot of black, white, silver, gold, polychromatic dark green, teak and mahogany. My wife allows me to see this stuff as often as I like!
I wonder why?
I know you're not Welsh, but living there can be a challenge to one's recognition skills!
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It should also be pointed out that, in a £200 consumer amplifier/bluray etc the cabinet budget is £5 if lucky, so the designer will come up with something then Engineering will need to work out how to bend it from cheap tin for the money. In high end audio, where there is a need for some willy waving the box might be 30-40% of the BOM with nicely machined panels and precious metals.
I do miss some of the wackier designs of Alan Boothroyd. But their time was then and this is now.
I do miss some of the wackier designs of Alan Boothroyd. But their time was then and this is now.
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