At 67 yr old never having tube/valve amp ad thinking I would like to hear one. I have tinnitus so I can not play at very loud db but I still hear using my Marantz 8002 with my 28 yr old Mirage M-5 speakers nice separation . But always heard that Valve amps produce more musical sounds.
So I see reviews and on my you can scratch your head all day..
So do not want to spend lots of money 2k to many 3k . But saw used Cayin 734a and wondered what quality it would be?? See new Decware models and Line magnetic .
Saw review of 519ia and sounded like not a summer Valve Amp. But saw a 516 and 508 models .. But for a newbie and just want to hear a little more than my Marantz to see if my ears can pick out more separation ..thank you Joe
So I see reviews and on my you can scratch your head all day..
So do not want to spend lots of money 2k to many 3k . But saw used Cayin 734a and wondered what quality it would be?? See new Decware models and Line magnetic .
Saw review of 519ia and sounded like not a summer Valve Amp. But saw a 516 and 508 models .. But for a newbie and just want to hear a little more than my Marantz to see if my ears can pick out more separation ..thank you Joe
Valve Sound? What do you mean by that?
The term can be interchangably used to describe a tubed device that is made to be as accuarte as possible OR to indicate a device that has a “vintage” sound. The latter i consider bad (ancillary parts available today are much better and there is no need for the often sloppy sound of vintage gear), the former represents some of the best kit there is.
Execution is always key.
Having experience with Decware, unless you can score one of the old SE EL84 amps, stay away. And even in SE EL84 amps one can fairly easily build an amp that smokes the Decware. I have no experience with the others you mention.
dave
The term can be interchangably used to describe a tubed device that is made to be as accuarte as possible OR to indicate a device that has a “vintage” sound. The latter i consider bad (ancillary parts available today are much better and there is no need for the often sloppy sound of vintage gear), the former represents some of the best kit there is.
Execution is always key.
Having experience with Decware, unless you can score one of the old SE EL84 amps, stay away. And even in SE EL84 amps one can fairly easily build an amp that smokes the Decware. I have no experience with the others you mention.
dave
Tube amps can be wonderful, but take a little bit of work. Tubes, particularly output tubes wear out. Replacement will require biasing, and often output tubes need to be checked periodically. Unless you are familiar with, and are willing to take the bottom off (where there are lethal voltages) i recommend you look for an amp that has external bias controls and test points (or bias meter). Or look for an amp that is autobiased or cathode biased.
Cayin gear is generally well made, but dealers and thereby service can be limited. Their stuff new may be within your budget.
Cayin gear is generally well made, but dealers and thereby service can be limited. Their stuff new may be within your budget.
As others have said, you need to decide whether you simply want a good quality hi-fi amp which happens to use valves or an amp which uses valves in a way which lets them add distortion, noise and restricted frequency response to the music signal. The former would steer you towards push-pull with sufficient amounts of negative feedback; the latter would steer you towards single-ended triode (if you have some interest in hi-fi at least at low volumes and with simple music) or even single-ended pentode (if you want to get that 1950's wireless set sound).
Fair enough. Just thought it might give him an idea of the valve sound.....?Not the same thing at all.
You need to keep in mind that modern normal speakers since 1970s are designed for transistor amplifiers.
If you have 'hifi' speakers, this is a good indicator that they are not tube friendly, unless the manufacturer state so.
A single ended tube amp will restrict even more the potential match.
Look for something like this : LAB 12 INTEGRE4
You will be quite surprised how not tubby it sounds
If you have 'hifi' speakers, this is a good indicator that they are not tube friendly, unless the manufacturer state so.
A single ended tube amp will restrict even more the potential match.
Look for something like this : LAB 12 INTEGRE4
You will be quite surprised how not tubby it sounds
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You can hear something good on youtube first. Its not 100% to give an original impresiion, but with headphones you will for sure hear the differences between new china craker cheap tube amps and old but excellent ones. And don't worry about the age of the gear. Most of them is several dozen years old, mostly from 50s-60s stuff, but that was the time when the good designs were born and when the gear has the stuff inside which makes a really nice tone. New china stuff wouldn't have those guts any longer, they are mostly build on computer like printed circuit boards with computer like parts. So, the result will be harsh highs and and uncomfortable sound. You will hear this on youtube, sure. There is much new gear that sounds like transistor equipment, so you don't have to change anyway.
If you buy used gear from ebay etc, don't worry. This is all repairable and should be checked for safety reasons. But if you make a good deal on, say, a Bogen DS 265 power amp (hear it first on youtube, its sounds pretty fine and is real american build quality) or on some LEAK pre- and power tube amps, give them to your local tube tech and he can check them out and with some minor mods changing old, worn parts those amps will rum again another 40 years. Yes, its that good build because they have no underrated junk transformers from asia in it. Most of the old US stuff is brutally overrated. The heavier it is, the better. Excellent transformers are always big and heavy. So don't be irritated by small asian transformers. Mostly they are cheap crap. Design is underrated and craftmanship ist done poorly. Not with any of those, but most of them which sell for low prices on the net. Better to buy for that money used US gear, and I say this as a german tube tech with lots of experience in gear, not only US but european, too.
If you buy used gear from ebay etc, don't worry. This is all repairable and should be checked for safety reasons. But if you make a good deal on, say, a Bogen DS 265 power amp (hear it first on youtube, its sounds pretty fine and is real american build quality) or on some LEAK pre- and power tube amps, give them to your local tube tech and he can check them out and with some minor mods changing old, worn parts those amps will rum again another 40 years. Yes, its that good build because they have no underrated junk transformers from asia in it. Most of the old US stuff is brutally overrated. The heavier it is, the better. Excellent transformers are always big and heavy. So don't be irritated by small asian transformers. Mostly they are cheap crap. Design is underrated and craftmanship ist done poorly. Not with any of those, but most of them which sell for low prices on the net. Better to buy for that money used US gear, and I say this as a german tube tech with lots of experience in gear, not only US but european, too.
Well Schmitz77 , I agree with you to some extent.
I only experienced listening sessions on old restored Fisher tube amplifiers. They sound excellent.
However, the IRON, after 50+ years oxidizes and soaks oxigen, chokes age and lose their magnetization force. Output transformers leak more and the 'core' rust gradually imparting the performance.
This aging process is affected by how much humidity, current usage and winding coating as well as the Iron quality.
Your are probably right that such old amps are preferable to cheap recent ones despite the aging of the windings and Iron.
I only experienced listening sessions on old restored Fisher tube amplifiers. They sound excellent.
However, the IRON, after 50+ years oxidizes and soaks oxigen, chokes age and lose their magnetization force. Output transformers leak more and the 'core' rust gradually imparting the performance.
This aging process is affected by how much humidity, current usage and winding coating as well as the Iron quality.
Your are probably right that such old amps are preferable to cheap recent ones despite the aging of the windings and Iron.
You guys want to buy a amplifier based on YouTube videos? Would you buy a car based on a YouTube video? Not me...
Also with regards to the aging transformer iron leaking more and the core rust imparting the performance- just don't buy rusty transformers. All my non-rusty old iron still sounds good. Might be because they've never had to sit out at the end of the pier?
Also with regards to the aging transformer iron leaking more and the core rust imparting the performance- just don't buy rusty transformers. All my non-rusty old iron still sounds good. Might be because they've never had to sit out at the end of the pier?
SS amps tend to be "set and forget". Valve amps need your TLC. Once you own one it's like having a dependent. Be prepared to expend time or money to keep it in tip-top condition.
I repaired valve amps as a side line for a few years. The owners would deliver their amps to me with the same care that they would afford a pet, or even a child. I wonder if there is a correlation with pet owners I never asked.
Don't be led into this tube-rolling ********. With good quality valves in a well designed circuit, things will work great.
As you go up in cost and quality, the differences between SS and P-P valve amps decrease. SE valve amps have a particular "signature" that many (though not all) find appealing.
Valve amps, especially those with no or low feedback have pleasant a limiting feature; SS amps tend to limit (clip) unpleasantly.
I repaired valve amps as a side line for a few years. The owners would deliver their amps to me with the same care that they would afford a pet, or even a child. I wonder if there is a correlation with pet owners
I never asked.Don't be led into this tube-rolling ********. With good quality valves in a well designed circuit, things will work great.
As you go up in cost and quality, the differences between SS and P-P valve amps decrease. SE valve amps have a particular "signature" that many (though not all) find appealing.
Valve amps, especially those with no or low feedback have pleasant a limiting feature; SS amps tend to limit (clip) unpleasantly.
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