Yes, with a little experience its possible to audition tube amps even with youtube videos. Put your attention on the differences, not on the absolute sound. In original, of course, it will sound much better. But the general pros and cons in the sound are still audible in most videos despite the compression of the format and the quality of the sound. The mics are so good today, that its even possible to listen to some live concerts recorded with mobile phones. Its not the same quality level of an LP, that must be clear. I once tried to record youtube music on my Revox tape decks and it was a desaster compared to real audio sources. But the more you compare in sounds it will be clear that the majority of youtube tube amps have not much to offer, soundwise. There are some main directions of sound to audition, thats audible.
There is the stuff that tries to sound like transistor amps, just with tubes. Forget about that. Tubes have much more to offer when done right. And there are the designs that sound like everybody would have said a tube amp sounds. With mellow highs, big bass department but all is like being listened with the ears being closed with something. No details but a warm and gloomy golden sound like chewing gum smells. Artificial sound with no details.
And then there are the pristine designs, the very few who are able to let shine what tubes really can sound. Transparent with a fluidity which no transistor amp can. High details that shine so colorful that the instruments are really could be heard for the first time. No artificial sound but a very strong and sharp base department. Highs are there but never sharp or overpronounced. Those amps you can find one in a hundred youtube videos. The other ones may sound better in reality, but they would not catch up to become an excellent one. A bad recording never would become an excellent one in real live and an excellent one is hardly destroyable in sound because every aspect of the sound is being recorded the same.
So you wil find dozens of over priced designs which sounds totally sterile and dead but may cost a fortune and has big brand name plates. But you could find jewels which are totally a bargain and sound so refined, so pure.
But be warned: with tube amps its all about the whole chain of components. So a wrong mix of speaker and amp can destroy everthing. And a wrong mix of impedances on the input side can even destroy more of the sound. So youtube may not be vor everyone, but for experienced and trained listeners there is nothing more fast to decide which is top or a flop.
Where do you have the possibility to audition a Bogen DS 265 in real life? Thats nearly impossible today, no store available anymore. But with a little luck in some weeks one could be found on ebay and restored for small money it could be an excellent start.
And for the rusty iron: good maintenance and condition is always visible from pics. If its too rusty or treated badly, some restoration could be done. But everybody has to decide for himself. I saw Klangfilm amps that looked like crap and were totally overpriced and others that looked like new after 50 years and were bargains.
There is the stuff that tries to sound like transistor amps, just with tubes. Forget about that. Tubes have much more to offer when done right. And there are the designs that sound like everybody would have said a tube amp sounds. With mellow highs, big bass department but all is like being listened with the ears being closed with something. No details but a warm and gloomy golden sound like chewing gum smells. Artificial sound with no details.
And then there are the pristine designs, the very few who are able to let shine what tubes really can sound. Transparent with a fluidity which no transistor amp can. High details that shine so colorful that the instruments are really could be heard for the first time. No artificial sound but a very strong and sharp base department. Highs are there but never sharp or overpronounced. Those amps you can find one in a hundred youtube videos. The other ones may sound better in reality, but they would not catch up to become an excellent one. A bad recording never would become an excellent one in real live and an excellent one is hardly destroyable in sound because every aspect of the sound is being recorded the same.
So you wil find dozens of over priced designs which sounds totally sterile and dead but may cost a fortune and has big brand name plates. But you could find jewels which are totally a bargain and sound so refined, so pure.
But be warned: with tube amps its all about the whole chain of components. So a wrong mix of speaker and amp can destroy everthing. And a wrong mix of impedances on the input side can even destroy more of the sound. So youtube may not be vor everyone, but for experienced and trained listeners there is nothing more fast to decide which is top or a flop.
Where do you have the possibility to audition a Bogen DS 265 in real life? Thats nearly impossible today, no store available anymore. But with a little luck in some weeks one could be found on ebay and restored for small money it could be an excellent start.
And for the rusty iron: good maintenance and condition is always visible from pics. If its too rusty or treated badly, some restoration could be done. But everybody has to decide for himself. I saw Klangfilm amps that looked like crap and were totally overpriced and others that looked like new after 50 years and were bargains.
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So, maybe you miss experience with that kind of sorting out. Tell us, how do you audition different tube amps today? Is there a broad variety of excellent designs available to you for auditioning? And I don't have spoken about the cheap asian boutique style amps, that mostly are worth nothing but have some bling bling and maybe a fake 300B tube?I was thinking the exact same thing!
In my city there is not even one tube amp audible from a professional dealer. And I have to travel at least 100 Km to find a dealer that has those amps. And what kind of amps would I find there? Exactly. Not the great designs but cheap and bling bling computer PCB board with all chinese ingredients.
So let us know your alternatives, please.
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I wouldn't call myself 'audiophile' but I agree about the uselessness of Youtube audio for auditioning amplifiers...and I listen to Youtube with a good quality DAC feeding a good headphone amplifier and quite good Beyerdynamic T1 headphones.
Most of the YouTube amp 'demos' seem to be recorded with cell phones...which probably sound fine if earbuds plugged into a cell phone is the audio standard?
It would be a very sad day when all audio sound this mediocre as youtube does.
But there are many sources of audio today that sound mediocre. The complete DAC world still, after dozens of years sound mediocre compared to analog audio. Or the radio format sounds mediocre compared to LP. The LP sounds mediocre compared to R2R. And does this means for any of this named mediocre sounding formats, that there are NO comparisons could be made? Are there no tests of analog record players because they sound so mediocre compared with R2R? Is there anybody who claims this is true, because mankind couldn't test this format because its all sounding mediocre?
And how about cell phone recordings? Are there no tests being done because the high audio court declared them all to mediocre sounding units? MP4 anyone? You know this isn't true and doesn't apply to any format. Even for the mediocre sounding VCR there are many shootouts being done.
Gentlemen, you're criticicing a method without showing alternatives. Thats negative critic and not very constructive. On my wish to show alternatives, no one could displayed a method other than the real life tests. But most of all, people are trusting the experiences of other people. Thats the most stupid thing to do but it happens all the time. Because people doesn't simply trust their own ears anymore. Lets be constructive instead of deconstructive.
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Mr. Schmitz77- There are at least half a dozen places in Southern CA where I can audition tube amps, new and used. Just like I wouldn't buy a used car without a test drive, I wouldn't buy any stereo gear without actually hearing it in person. That's knowing that it might sound different in my room and on my speakers.
However, if there weren't shops where I could listen, I would join a club or form one. I have three young engineers who are wanting to buy or make some tube amps/preamps and speakers who are coming over in two weeks to listen to some solid state amps and tube amps on different speakers. I started out with stereo gears when I was in the military and spent a lot of time at the audio hobby shop on base. Most of the other GI's also had stereo gear that I would listen to and ask questions before buying my own gear.
So being constructive, another option is your local community college and/or trade school that offer electronics programs. Many offer classes where you can work on your own gear during certain hours, meet Ham Radio people, audiophiles, people who work on Tektronix oscilloscopes and other specific brands.
There are some things you have to get out and do, get off the internet, talk in person to some people and take the ear buds out.
With music reproduction electronics, everybody hears the reproduced music differently. What may sound beautiful and wonderful to you might sound like **** to others. There's no single amplifier or pair of speakers that is going to be wonderful and make beautiful music for every single person who may listen.
When I lived in Albuquerque, we had a great stereo shop that would let you return gear after a couple weeks or a month. If you didn't like the gear, you could return it and buy something else. They would even help you sell your current gear if you weren't inclined to listing it on the webs yourself.
There isn't one most beautiful woman in the world, because you haven't seen every woman in the whole world. And even if you have, some people might like blondes, some like brunettes and red heads because their tastes may vary.
Get out there and attend some live music shows. Support your local musicians. Purchase their recorded music in whatever format you prefer. Put your money where your ears are and purchase some gear, or buy some parts and put together your own gear.
This all reminds me of my wife and mother in law when they cook a wonderful meal, then sit and critique it when it is excellent. It needs more salt, less salt, more of this spice, less of that spice. It all tastes great to me.
However, if there weren't shops where I could listen, I would join a club or form one. I have three young engineers who are wanting to buy or make some tube amps/preamps and speakers who are coming over in two weeks to listen to some solid state amps and tube amps on different speakers. I started out with stereo gears when I was in the military and spent a lot of time at the audio hobby shop on base. Most of the other GI's also had stereo gear that I would listen to and ask questions before buying my own gear.
So being constructive, another option is your local community college and/or trade school that offer electronics programs. Many offer classes where you can work on your own gear during certain hours, meet Ham Radio people, audiophiles, people who work on Tektronix oscilloscopes and other specific brands.
There are some things you have to get out and do, get off the internet, talk in person to some people and take the ear buds out.
With music reproduction electronics, everybody hears the reproduced music differently. What may sound beautiful and wonderful to you might sound like **** to others. There's no single amplifier or pair of speakers that is going to be wonderful and make beautiful music for every single person who may listen.
When I lived in Albuquerque, we had a great stereo shop that would let you return gear after a couple weeks or a month. If you didn't like the gear, you could return it and buy something else. They would even help you sell your current gear if you weren't inclined to listing it on the webs yourself.
There isn't one most beautiful woman in the world, because you haven't seen every woman in the whole world. And even if you have, some people might like blondes, some like brunettes and red heads because their tastes may vary.
Get out there and attend some live music shows. Support your local musicians. Purchase their recorded music in whatever format you prefer. Put your money where your ears are and purchase some gear, or buy some parts and put together your own gear.
This all reminds me of my wife and mother in law when they cook a wonderful meal, then sit and critique it when it is excellent. It needs more salt, less salt, more of this spice, less of that spice. It all tastes great to me.
Compare the average cell phone or computer cam video on YouTube with professional film-making. Extend that analogy to the difference between the average 'phone video' audio and a professional studio recording, and you will get an idea of the 'fidelity' I hear on YouTube.
Others may be luckier in the amplifier audio they find on YouTube.
It's like asking me to compare two classical recordings on different labels by listening to samples via my AM transistor radio from 1963, held up to my ear.
Yes, I would rather trust the opinions of other people who have heard the amplifier 'in real life' if I couldn't hear it myself. But, if I can't hear the amplifier (or other audio gear) myself, I consider a purchase a bit of a gamble - part of the adventure. And the stakes are MUCH higher when I spend hours building a piece of audio gear (speaker enclosures, amplifier, etc..) and then hear it for the first time when it is completed!
As far as trusting our ears, I think people should be required to post the results of a recent hearing test by an audiologist before being allowed to comment on the 'sound' of any audio gear!
Audio should be a fun adventure!
Back to the main topic:
I owned a MP-301 by 'Musical Paradise' and thought it was a nice-sounding amp; I'd buy one (or another product from the same company) again if I didn't have too many tube amps already. Not too much money. I looked inside and it seemed to be well-built.
Canadian company with products made in China (?) but shipped from Canada.I did have efficient speakers even then (AudioNirvana), so loudness/power was never an issue.
This is assuming the OP wants a commercial amp, not a DIY project.
99% people use "potato" for video recording. sound goes down to the toilet. (because of potato camera sound system, and youtube recompression) not only with electrostat heaphones it sounds bad .
youtube has support for 4k video, but not for hd audio (above cd format)
Repeating arguments. Yes, we all know that the sound of youtube is compressed and not high quality. All this has been said before.
But the sound of an LP compared to the studio-sound like quality of high speed R2R is the same low quality. Anybody considered not to test LP record playing for that reasons? My audio equipment is that excellent, that its possible to audition a live concert on youtube captured with a high quality mobile phone or whatever they use. I know, its not the highest of the high quality but its OK to hear it. It doesn't hurt like a pocket transistor radio as some people argue. Someone can have the same complaints about nearly everything which isn't studio standard in audio terms, so why we are comparing and testing anyway?
There are people in the so called high end hobby, who think that only the best of the best records from specialized companies (we know them all, they have mostly unknown music on their labels but this has been recorded with the highest efforts) are worth to be played and only those can make an audio (their audio) system shine. I regard those people as poor, no matter how many they have been spend for their super-duper audio system. An audio system which isn't capable to let the average media or the poor shine has to be considered low-fi. Regardless of its price. And there are many poor audio systems existing in the high end.
But the sound of an LP compared to the studio-sound like quality of high speed R2R is the same low quality. Anybody considered not to test LP record playing for that reasons? My audio equipment is that excellent, that its possible to audition a live concert on youtube captured with a high quality mobile phone or whatever they use. I know, its not the highest of the high quality but its OK to hear it. It doesn't hurt like a pocket transistor radio as some people argue. Someone can have the same complaints about nearly everything which isn't studio standard in audio terms, so why we are comparing and testing anyway?
There are people in the so called high end hobby, who think that only the best of the best records from specialized companies (we know them all, they have mostly unknown music on their labels but this has been recorded with the highest efforts) are worth to be played and only those can make an audio (their audio) system shine. I regard those people as poor, no matter how many they have been spend for their super-duper audio system. An audio system which isn't capable to let the average media or the poor shine has to be considered low-fi. Regardless of its price. And there are many poor audio systems existing in the high end.
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Nobody is destructing the ideas of others, only saying that I personally would never buy an amplifier of any type based on a YouTube video. Nor would I buy a used car without taking it for a test drive, preferably in the summer with the windows rolled up and the air conditioning going full blast in bumper to bumper traffic. I also provided some alternatives for alternative and constructive methods to audition stereo gear.
I'm retired from a national laboratory after working 31+ years at the same job and am now working part time at a university. (My hobby job. The hardest part about this job is getting to and from work on public transportation, but that isn't really hard). I know how to keep a job, but thank you for your concern.
I'm retired from a national laboratory after working 31+ years at the same job and am now working part time at a university. (My hobby job. The hardest part about this job is getting to and from work on public transportation, but that isn't really hard). I know how to keep a job, but thank you for your concern.
OK, we understand that this method isn't appropriate for you. But you're not the only one on this planet and a self centered thinking isn't always helpfull when it comes to showing methods for others. I'm using this method and I'm fine with it. If an amp sucks in listening on youtube, I wouldn't waste a second to audition it in reality. Because I know what construction mistakes are happening and why many amps only sound mediocre and others are not. And I can tell you, in 99% of the amps that sound excellent on youtube they are constructed without big faults and are near perfect. And for the amps which sounds horrible I'll only have to look inside and study the schematic and voila, construction faults more than I can count on one hand. So this method has been proven for me to work. It shouldn't work for anyone and mostly it mustn't work for you, but I'm repeating myself, it was the thread starter for whom it could work, too. And you are not the judge to decide about it. Even when you're working in the university.
Btw, I aggree to buy no used cars without a personal test drive. For me its essential not only to control the fault free function but to get a feel about the overall condition of dampers etc. But there are many other people who think thats not necessary and they buy used cars on ebay etc. having not even seen them in personal before. So always remember, its not about you here but to show methods that may work for others.
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Recorded by a microphone sounds very well reveal flaws of amps and speakers. Ears in the same room would adjust to distortions, while a microphone picks up the sum in the point where it is located. It is what I usually do to test and compare. I record. When I want to test speakers, I record moving the microphone farther-closer, in different directions from on-axis sound. It reveals quality degradation very well! All flaws are audible. Both of speakers and power amps. Gubernator-71 & Focus SE
I would say to this method of listening to recorded sound for judgement components that it needs some education on how an excellent amp could sound and how faults in the design of amps would correspond to their sound. Most people simply doesn't know the criterias for good sound but decide out of their stomach if they like an amp or not.
For e. g., most designers think it would lift the quality of an amp when oversizing caps. The direct opposite is the case. If a designer overzizes those parts in the power supply, mostly the amp will become slow and boomy sounding. If the designer oversizes in the direct supplies for the tube stages, the amp will miss details. Some designers think they are very clever and bridge oversized electrolytics with small caps to make them sound more fast. All that is audible, but only for trained listeners and that, of course, needs knowledge of good practice in audio design, which most listeners (by nature) are missing, because they are simply no designers but listeners only. The other points are wrongly choosen working points of tubes, wrong parts used, wrong tubes for the application, simply wrong design of the circuit etc. Its not so easy to do everything correct, thats the reason why most designers does it wrong. There are a million possibilities for a wrong design but mostly only one for a perfect one.
For e. g., most designers think it would lift the quality of an amp when oversizing caps. The direct opposite is the case. If a designer overzizes those parts in the power supply, mostly the amp will become slow and boomy sounding. If the designer oversizes in the direct supplies for the tube stages, the amp will miss details. Some designers think they are very clever and bridge oversized electrolytics with small caps to make them sound more fast. All that is audible, but only for trained listeners and that, of course, needs knowledge of good practice in audio design, which most listeners (by nature) are missing, because they are simply no designers but listeners only. The other points are wrongly choosen working points of tubes, wrong parts used, wrong tubes for the application, simply wrong design of the circuit etc. Its not so easy to do everything correct, thats the reason why most designers does it wrong. There are a million possibilities for a wrong design but mostly only one for a perfect one.
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I'm not buying audio amplifier based on YouTube video. Read all you want, watch all the videos you want. It's like sports, playing a musical instrument, mathematics, foreign languages- you have to practice and do the activity.
Support your local musician. Support your local audio gear shop. Put the smartphone down, get off the internet. Talk to people face to face. I'm going to go listen to some music, talk to some human beings face to face and get off the internet.
Support your local musician. Support your local audio gear shop. Put the smartphone down, get off the internet. Talk to people face to face. I'm going to go listen to some music, talk to some human beings face to face and get off the internet.
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