Let's say I want to apply patent for my hopefully new invention.
I like to know if I should seek help or go on my own.
I know there are people in the forum holding several patents.
Would you kindly share your journey?
I think getting something approved required a lot of careful wording in the very overlapped world of inventions. Any guidance on how to choose what to says and what not?
TIA!
I like to know if I should seek help or go on my own.
I know there are people in the forum holding several patents.
Would you kindly share your journey?
I think getting something approved required a lot of careful wording in the very overlapped world of inventions. Any guidance on how to choose what to says and what not?
TIA!
There's already a lot of material on patents. If you search on user "SY" you will come across a lot of excellent material. I'm sure other users will chime as well.
One thing I would like to point out is that patents are not really as valuable as the general public might think. You might want to do an evaluation if a patent is what you need: Trade Secrets vs Patents: Which Approach is Right for You?
One thing I would like to point out is that patents are not really as valuable as the general public might think. You might want to do an evaluation if a patent is what you need: Trade Secrets vs Patents: Which Approach is Right for You?
A patent only allows you to legally block others from making what is described in your patent. So doing that requires a lot of money for lawyers and court time. Sometimes it is good to simply block others from patenting your idea by releasing it in the public domain. That way others can't patent it and come back and block you from making it. Provisional patents are cheap and last 1 year. Many patents, maybe half are granted for absolute garbage, so they are easy to get. You will want to hire a Patent Agent who is trained in the technical field you are working in. I recommend learn to search and read all the patents that are close to your idea. There are short courses on understanding patents. The claims section contain the legally binding language. The rest is just background. Unless you are very familiar and connected to the industry associated with building things like what you are about to patent, it is very very unlikely you will be able to use it to license your idea to a large company and make money. Much of my career was spent working in R&D at large companies creating slightly different designs from those that were patented by competitors. Many of the most novel design ideas are not even identifiable or discoverable in a product and are simply kept as a trade secret.
Olsond3, at one point I was talking to Mr. Frick at Physio, was a long time ago. I was working in the model shop at an industrial design company down Willows Rd.
Wound up doing similar work in similar industries as well in the northwest, grew up around here also.
Patents used to be whoever could prove they fake up with it, now its whoever gets to the patent office first.
It is true that many are made trade secrets when they aren’t likely to be discovered, buried in devices or within processes.
Wound up doing similar work in similar industries as well in the northwest, grew up around here also.
Patents used to be whoever could prove they fake up with it, now its whoever gets to the patent office first.
It is true that many are made trade secrets when they aren’t likely to be discovered, buried in devices or within processes.
Find an attorney and file a provisional patent ASAP, it s not a large expense but enough that you should really be convinced in the value of going forward.
First thing,
GO to the patent office and look for similar inventions.
If your invention is truly original, it can be patented in USA, states (i cant remember), and other countries.
The IDEA behind patent is 2 things.
1. You patent , someone will copy, you sue them, typical law suits value 10-25 millions
2. You patent and sell your idea to a big company able to buy it. Typical value 1 - 10 millions.
If your idea has no commercial/technological advantage value, (less than 500K worth of savings etc) then you should NOT patent it,
Typical patent lawer can be around 50 to 200k.
Otherwise you can do it yourself, but prepare for hard work into unknown ground.
My info: I graduated in common law and civil law, been around patent lawyers for clearkship, now I do a different job,
Remember, patent lawyer usually have their law degree (or a master) which took them 7 years and a doctorate in some science which took them another 6 years, they have to get some of their investment back. I though once of doing that with a master in electricity.
The best is to addend meetings with other inventors and lawyers.
In my family we patented 2 or 3 things, never went to production due to disagreements on shares of the company, those who own 51 % are worth over 20 million. So be prepared to be ripped off your idea very soon.
My grandfather used to say a letter posted to yourself worked because of the date of the stamped letter, so you can claim first to invent it
lol
GO to the patent office and look for similar inventions.
If your invention is truly original, it can be patented in USA, states (i cant remember), and other countries.
The IDEA behind patent is 2 things.
1. You patent , someone will copy, you sue them, typical law suits value 10-25 millions
2. You patent and sell your idea to a big company able to buy it. Typical value 1 - 10 millions.
If your idea has no commercial/technological advantage value, (less than 500K worth of savings etc) then you should NOT patent it,
Typical patent lawer can be around 50 to 200k.
Otherwise you can do it yourself, but prepare for hard work into unknown ground.
My info: I graduated in common law and civil law, been around patent lawyers for clearkship, now I do a different job,
Remember, patent lawyer usually have their law degree (or a master) which took them 7 years and a doctorate in some science which took them another 6 years, they have to get some of their investment back. I though once of doing that with a master in electricity.
The best is to addend meetings with other inventors and lawyers.
In my family we patented 2 or 3 things, never went to production due to disagreements on shares of the company, those who own 51 % are worth over 20 million. So be prepared to be ripped off your idea very soon.
My grandfather used to say a letter posted to yourself worked because of the date of the stamped letter, so you can claim first to invent it
lolI should add, most valuable patents, or any that are worth patenting nowadays are related to industrial processes. And they involve nanotechnology.
How do I know this? I worked as industrial electrician in top big industries. Usually incorporating the new technologies cost around 150 million dollars + and it is a risky investment. The promise in cost cuts and higher quality products.
You would be surprised how many consumer products are now incorporating nanotech in the production to cut costs and pollution.
You should incorporate and bring friends with shares to help you launch the company. Being a one man show is impossible today.
How do I know this? I worked as industrial electrician in top big industries. Usually incorporating the new technologies cost around 150 million dollars + and it is a risky investment. The promise in cost cuts and higher quality products.
You would be surprised how many consumer products are now incorporating nanotech in the production to cut costs and pollution.
You should incorporate and bring friends with shares to help you launch the company. Being a one man show is impossible today.
My grandfather used to say a letter posted to yourself worked because of the date of the stamped letter, so you can claim first to invent it
This is now irrelevant, the doctrine of first to file is almost universal.
There is almost zero chance that an individual will be able to get (and enforce) a patent these days. It is so complex and expensive that it is unthinkable in any field unless the rewards are worth Millions. Much better to use the system to stop anyone else from trying it.
A Patent in one territory can look reasonable in price to start with - but look down the line and watch how the renewal fees escalate over the 20 year period of protection!. Then think about the cost of doing that in most developed economies (never mind the world!) with the added cost of super-expensive translations.
Even if you get a patent - what are you going to do with it? Licensing fees are based on commercial value - which can often be quite low. In certain fields all sorts of cross-licensing and offsetting needs to take place in order to get a product to market. More lawyers fees! If it has some true value - best to sell it outright and let the new owner (corporate probably) deal with it in the future. But you will see of that value - the owner has some big costs to absorb.
And if along the way you get challenged, you should drop it like a stone. No normal mortal can withstand the cost of defending a patent, even of you think you have a good case. Money talks all the way.
Applying for patent, the first stage, is cheap and you could do that easily for the pleasure and self aggrandisement and then leave it at that.
A Patent in one territory can look reasonable in price to start with - but look down the line and watch how the renewal fees escalate over the 20 year period of protection!. Then think about the cost of doing that in most developed economies (never mind the world!) with the added cost of super-expensive translations.
Even if you get a patent - what are you going to do with it? Licensing fees are based on commercial value - which can often be quite low. In certain fields all sorts of cross-licensing and offsetting needs to take place in order to get a product to market. More lawyers fees! If it has some true value - best to sell it outright and let the new owner (corporate probably) deal with it in the future. But you will see of that value - the owner has some big costs to absorb.
And if along the way you get challenged, you should drop it like a stone. No normal mortal can withstand the cost of defending a patent, even of you think you have a good case. Money talks all the way.
Applying for patent, the first stage, is cheap and you could do that easily for the pleasure and self aggrandisement and then leave it at that.
What we now call nanotech is, by and large, chemistry with a brand change. (Someone who works in "nanotechnology"
)Anyhow, yes, make sure it's a worthwhile patent. It takes essentially nothing to put in a provisional (in the US) and then see if you can get some "friends with money" /investors to go for a patent, especially international. Make sure you do due diligence for novelty and whether yours is a refinement or can stand alone.
The biggest advances in nanotech is carbon spheres coated with special (ultratoxic) glues.
It helps cut cost for gluing compounds ($$$$$) for mass production of anything from furniture, structures, electronics, finishing, fabrics etc etc etc. Makes glue stronger, heating process better, products more resistant to tear, weight stress and durability, while reducing toxicity.
nanotech is the next big thing, including inside our bodies)))))
In what area do you work Daniel?
It helps cut cost for gluing compounds ($$$$$) for mass production of anything from furniture, structures, electronics, finishing, fabrics etc etc etc. Makes glue stronger, heating process better, products more resistant to tear, weight stress and durability, while reducing toxicity.
nanotech is the next big thing, including inside our bodies
)))))In what area do you work Daniel?
Have you done a thorough search for prior art?
I did it for Baker Hughes in my final years.
Careful don't fully trust Google advanced searches. It either intentionally or accidentally misses a lot! Google also builds data base on patent searches.
Think of Google as always looking over your shoulder.
Use both USPTO and Google.
Look at filed applications in the fields of your search too. USPTO has the best tutorials on how to do a search.
Frequently you can find expired technology similar to what the IP is.
You are lucky if found, no patent is necessary.
If an application is attempting to skirt around a current patent then file a defensive claim with PTO.
You do not need an attorney for any of the tasks I've listed.
Keep records of the search in case you do file.
An individual filing for patents gets special breaks that corporations do not get. Info on the USPTO site.
I did it for Baker Hughes in my final years.
Careful don't fully trust Google advanced searches. It either intentionally or accidentally misses a lot! Google also builds data base on patent searches.
Think of Google as always looking over your shoulder.
Use both USPTO and Google.
Look at filed applications in the fields of your search too. USPTO has the best tutorials on how to do a search.
Frequently you can find expired technology similar to what the IP is.
You are lucky if found, no patent is necessary.
If an application is attempting to skirt around a current patent then file a defensive claim with PTO.
You do not need an attorney for any of the tasks I've listed.
Keep records of the search in case you do file.
An individual filing for patents gets special breaks that corporations do not get. Info on the USPTO site.
I would add the following to comments already presented. If you begin by making a provisional application do not skimp on the required research into previous IP. The patent validity is based on unique 'claims'. You cannot in retrospect revise the claims. Therefore ensure that claims that are filed will bear scrutiny. It is advisable to seek guidance on stating the claims.
1. Be sure that the financial structure can support the application and choose carefully the territories in which filing will procede. Total world coverage is a massive undertaking.
2. The patent examiner will behave like an idiot (deliberately) and take the view that your efforts are not worthy. Alternatives will be presented, some unrelated to your invention and in a different field. You will need clear cut explanations why your claims do not overlap.
3. The patent lawyer may also be an idiot. You will need to oversee every crossed 't' and dotted 'i'. In the final application.
4. The application has to break down the elements of the invention so that a 12 year old can compare your invention with previous IP and conclude that it is indeed unique. Everything hinges on the claims.
5. The patent application should cite 'prior art'. Include as much as possible previous related and possibly unrelated work, that bears the slightest hint of overlap. Make the patent examiner work to dig out objections.
My easiest patent application had two other patents cited by the examiner as overlap. One had little to do with it. The other, although a different field, had a surprising amount of overlap. I had to argure that my claims supported an inference that could not be made by the other patents. It was the supporting drawings that upheld the explanation.
1. Be sure that the financial structure can support the application and choose carefully the territories in which filing will procede. Total world coverage is a massive undertaking.
2. The patent examiner will behave like an idiot (deliberately) and take the view that your efforts are not worthy. Alternatives will be presented, some unrelated to your invention and in a different field. You will need clear cut explanations why your claims do not overlap.
3. The patent lawyer may also be an idiot. You will need to oversee every crossed 't' and dotted 'i'. In the final application.
4. The application has to break down the elements of the invention so that a 12 year old can compare your invention with previous IP and conclude that it is indeed unique. Everything hinges on the claims.
5. The patent application should cite 'prior art'. Include as much as possible previous related and possibly unrelated work, that bears the slightest hint of overlap. Make the patent examiner work to dig out objections.
My easiest patent application had two other patents cited by the examiner as overlap. One had little to do with it. The other, although a different field, had a surprising amount of overlap. I had to argure that my claims supported an inference that could not be made by the other patents. It was the supporting drawings that upheld the explanation.
A Good Book
You probably should use a patent attorney to file your patent. However, you can save a lot of money if you get your ducks in a row first. This book is a good guide to that:
Patent It Yourself - Do-It-Yourself Legal Book - Nolo
You probably should use a patent attorney to file your patent. However, you can save a lot of money if you get your ducks in a row first. This book is a good guide to that:
Patent It Yourself - Do-It-Yourself Legal Book - Nolo
Thanks to ALL for the help and the suggestions! It's very valuable to me since I am new to this game.
I have been reading about it on USPTO and I got the necessary step to file it myself (PRO SE). I am now facing the hard truth of getting the invention into the text format that the examiner would like to see and I am dumb as F in this.
I don't know how much $ is involved in this if it's patentable but I am definitely going for provisional status for it. I also need to read / search a lot on my hopeful invention as it didn't step on anyone' patent. But I guess it is probably doable.
I definitely don't have a lot of money to spend for the lawyers and I don't have lawyer friend who will help me with that so I am thanking you guys for sending me to the right direction.
The patent - Do it yourself book on NOLO is a great deal and thanks for that, Dioffe! I needed that and it is a steal with 50% of deals for the Black Friday sale.
If you guys have anything else to chime in, keep it coming guys! It can never be more to learn!
I have been reading about it on USPTO and I got the necessary step to file it myself (PRO SE). I am now facing the hard truth of getting the invention into the text format that the examiner would like to see and I am dumb as F in this.
I don't know how much $ is involved in this if it's patentable but I am definitely going for provisional status for it. I also need to read / search a lot on my hopeful invention as it didn't step on anyone' patent. But I guess it is probably doable.
I definitely don't have a lot of money to spend for the lawyers and I don't have lawyer friend who will help me with that so I am thanking you guys for sending me to the right direction.
The patent - Do it yourself book on NOLO is a great deal and thanks for that, Dioffe! I needed that and it is a steal with 50% of deals for the Black Friday sale.
If you guys have anything else to chime in, keep it coming guys! It can never be more to learn!
A fine overview of patent writing. Old, outdated in details, but worth reading.
PATENTS, -HOW TO WRITE AND UNDERSTAND THEM, by Thad R. Goldsborough
https://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Electronics/40s/Electronics-1940-02.pdf
PDF page 12
PATENTS, -HOW TO WRITE AND UNDERSTAND THEM, by Thad R. Goldsborough
https://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Electronics/40s/Electronics-1940-02.pdf
PDF page 12
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