DON'T PANIC!!
I'm after suggestions based on aesthetics and practicality please.....
My speakers get moved around a lot, most of the time they are in the middle of my room. The floor is cork tiles. I want a very flexible cable that will stand being moved a lot and lie flat without complaining, and that will also blend with the floor colour to a degree. I like the look of this https://www.lampspares.co.uk/3-core...Gsr5g7TwkdAa_CAeu7CflR_AeEDc4ruBoC8BQQAvD_BwE but am open to all suggestions/advice. Thanks.
I'm after suggestions based on aesthetics and practicality please.....
My speakers get moved around a lot, most of the time they are in the middle of my room. The floor is cork tiles. I want a very flexible cable that will stand being moved a lot and lie flat without complaining, and that will also blend with the floor colour to a degree. I like the look of this https://www.lampspares.co.uk/3-core...Gsr5g7TwkdAa_CAeu7CflR_AeEDc4ruBoC8BQQAvD_BwE but am open to all suggestions/advice. Thanks.
In my PA systems, I need to route the speaker cables all sorts of ways and have been using 2.5 twin rubber cable. It is arctic grade and very flexible.
Available from RS, CPC, Farnell, Mouser or even your local branch of City Electrical.
This is what I use; 1600187 | Lapp 2 Core 2.5 mm2 Mains Power Cable, Black Rubber Sheath 100m, 26 A 450/750 V, H07RN-F | RS Components
Available from RS, CPC, Farnell, Mouser or even your local branch of City Electrical.
This is what I use; 1600187 | Lapp 2 Core 2.5 mm2 Mains Power Cable, Black Rubber Sheath 100m, 26 A 450/750 V, H07RN-F | RS Components
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Thanks, that's decent stuff. Colour is an issue too though, I googled arctic mains flexes and came across this Gold Flexible Power Cable PVC Rubber Heat Resistant & Arctic | Electrical World Have you any idea how this compares flexibility wise
The flexibility of welding cable would surprise you. The flexibility comes from extreme multi-stranding.
I'm drawn to this Silk Flex Cable braided twisted 2 Core 0.50mm Ideal for Pendant Lighting & Lamps | eBay Colour and twistiness appear to be my priorities. I don't want something that may loop up and do it's best to cause me or my speakers an injury. The wires run across my path, nothing I can do about that, where my speakers are positioned is the most important thing, the fact that they are in my way most of the time is a cross I have to bare, I just don't want the wires to kill me....
> I like the look of this
That's 3-core. Seriously? You only need 2-core for speakers. 2-core will be a buck cheaper and significantly more flexy. The bulk of that site is 3-core. Must be some UK thing about grounding lamps. I did find some 2-core on page 5 but shocking green or odd-brown.
You do not need UK BS spec cable for speakers. You do not even need US UL spec. Non-UL "illegal lampcord" has been available in the US, though suppliers are shifting to UL spec in self defense.
In the US, a long-time cloth lampcord supplier is Sundial Wire. Here's their 2-fer page:
2-Conductor Wires | Sundial Wire
Top of page is mostly "pulley" cable with over-wrapper. Go halfway down and there's twisted pair in several shades of brown.
18/2 Dark Brown Cotton Twisted Wire Sold by the Foot
Personally I would favor #16 or a lower number (fatter wire) for speakers, but #18 is fine for short runs. They offer down to #22 which is dubious for lamps. 10'/3m of #22 is 0.3 Ohms, so DF is 24, which is not awful but not spectacular.
SundialWire will ship globally. Put an item in your cart (trolley) and see how horrible the shipping will be. {EDIT} Ah, it appears their shipping tool is too fussy; I could not make it accept London or Toronto.
That's 3-core. Seriously? You only need 2-core for speakers. 2-core will be a buck cheaper and significantly more flexy. The bulk of that site is 3-core. Must be some UK thing about grounding lamps. I did find some 2-core on page 5 but shocking green or odd-brown.
You do not need UK BS spec cable for speakers. You do not even need US UL spec. Non-UL "illegal lampcord" has been available in the US, though suppliers are shifting to UL spec in self defense.
In the US, a long-time cloth lampcord supplier is Sundial Wire. Here's their 2-fer page:
2-Conductor Wires | Sundial Wire
Top of page is mostly "pulley" cable with over-wrapper. Go halfway down and there's twisted pair in several shades of brown.
18/2 Dark Brown Cotton Twisted Wire Sold by the Foot
Personally I would favor #16 or a lower number (fatter wire) for speakers, but #18 is fine for short runs. They offer down to #22 which is dubious for lamps. 10'/3m of #22 is 0.3 Ohms, so DF is 24, which is not awful but not spectacular.
SundialWire will ship globally. Put an item in your cart (trolley) and see how horrible the shipping will be. {EDIT} Ah, it appears their shipping tool is too fussy; I could not make it accept London or Toronto.
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The moving mass is massy; resonances above ~~500Hz don't appear at the speaker terminals much.
But speakers go inductive. A wide-range "8 Ohm" speaker may be above 32 ohms in the top of the audio band. (Why naked pentodes are "shrill".)
Then there are crossovers. Constant-resistance design is solid theory but almost never used. Some crossovers have wicked dips and peaks. I know one which jumped from 10r at 2KHz to 40r at 3KHz. Some Hi-Fi crossovers dip to less than half the nominal impedance (to bump-up a crossover dip).
But take a simple case. 40 Ohms at 50Hz, 8 Ohms at 400Hz, 40 Ohms at 10KHz. With 0.33 Ohms source:
0.96 at 8 Ohms, -0.35dB
0.99 at 40 Ohms, -0.07dB
Assuming the speaker was designed flat for a ZERO Ohm source, this is 0.28dB "error".
Not much. But only 10 feet of lampcord. By 40 feet we have a whole dB of "error". This too is "small" compared to room effects (many dB), but we "hear" room effects as we walk and talk, wire effects only skew the system response.
But speakers go inductive. A wide-range "8 Ohm" speaker may be above 32 ohms in the top of the audio band. (Why naked pentodes are "shrill".)
Then there are crossovers. Constant-resistance design is solid theory but almost never used. Some crossovers have wicked dips and peaks. I know one which jumped from 10r at 2KHz to 40r at 3KHz. Some Hi-Fi crossovers dip to less than half the nominal impedance (to bump-up a crossover dip).
But take a simple case. 40 Ohms at 50Hz, 8 Ohms at 400Hz, 40 Ohms at 10KHz. With 0.33 Ohms source:
0.96 at 8 Ohms, -0.35dB
0.99 at 40 Ohms, -0.07dB
Assuming the speaker was designed flat for a ZERO Ohm source, this is 0.28dB "error".
Not much. But only 10 feet of lampcord. By 40 feet we have a whole dB of "error". This too is "small" compared to room effects (many dB), but we "hear" room effects as we walk and talk, wire effects only skew the system response.
Damping Factor is basically a non-issue, any reasonably well designed Power Amp, Solid State or Vacuum State, will be adequate. Remember that the DF specification offered by manufacturers is measured at the speaker output terminals with no load.
Actual damping factor involves the output impedance vs (1) The positive loudspeaker lead (2) The resistive elements in the crossover, if present (3) The voice coil impedance and (4) the negative loudspeaker lead back to the amplifier.
Do that math and you will soon discover that any DF greater than 20 is fine.
For Loudspeaker Cable I can recommend Mogami Pro Audio speaker cable, the right AWG, very flexible jacket and wire, designed to remain flexible down to-40C, and priced reasonably.
Actual damping factor involves the output impedance vs (1) The positive loudspeaker lead (2) The resistive elements in the crossover, if present (3) The voice coil impedance and (4) the negative loudspeaker lead back to the amplifier.
Do that math and you will soon discover that any DF greater than 20 is fine.
For Loudspeaker Cable I can recommend Mogami Pro Audio speaker cable, the right AWG, very flexible jacket and wire, designed to remain flexible down to-40C, and priced reasonably.
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Aren't the speaker leads added to the source impedance?
I'm using active crossover, so the amps are connected directly to the drivers, for the bass I have two of these Product information:M12 Bass-Midrange connected in series in an open baffle. The impedance at resonance rises to a total of about 100 ohms, which presumably should be included in the calculation and raises the damping factor at resonance, which is where it's going to have most effect?
Yes, speaker leads add to amplifier source impedance. I guess we can argue about crossover resistance, but in the end DF is merely a rough measure. What actually damps the resonance goes like 1 + 1/DF, so if DF is big enough then it doesn't matter what DF is.
This is a weird cable thread. How long before the true believers pop up and modify it?
This is a weird cable thread. How long before the true believers pop up and modify it?
A calculator for determining the effect that speaker wire has on effective damping factor (DF) is available in the link below.
Damping Factor with Calculator
DF = loudspeaker Z / (amp output Z + cable R)
The damping factor will increase at resonance with your speakers since the impedance rises from a nominal 8 ohm to around 100 ohm.
Example calculation: DF = 100 / (0.1 + 0.3) = 250
Damping Factor with Calculator
DF = loudspeaker Z / (amp output Z + cable R)
The damping factor will increase at resonance with your speakers since the impedance rises from a nominal 8 ohm to around 100 ohm.
Example calculation: DF = 100 / (0.1 + 0.3) = 250
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