Veganism

[scottjoplin]

Does that mean that having children, treating them well and then killing all of them in their sleep is better than having none?

My thinking when saying that were more along philosophical lines. Ethically, of course, it is highly questionable

 

[wintermute]

Scott, I think you missed my point. If there was no need for those animals, the farmers would not continue to farm them. They would either put them down, or they would make sure they don't breed, and let them live out their natural lives (that would I think be a minority case), eventually (or quickly) those species would die out.

Food for the animals vs the humans didn't even enter my thoughts!

Tony.

 

[scottjoplin]

I need things to be spelled out for me very clearly If the farmers had turned vegan overnight what would they do?

 

[Pano]

We might as well ask "What would happen if a Vogon constructor fleet showed up over night?" Oh wait, we know that answer to that one.

 

[scottjoplin]

Hehe, I know....anyway...

Debate: Could anti-speciesism and veganism form the basis for a rational society?

Many of the more reasonable suggestions (to my mind) seem to focus on radical reduction of meat production, not total eradication

 

[Galu]

From the Debate: "Those (animals) whose organisation and suffering are close to ours are thought to be included in our moral sphere, while the (very many) others are excluded. Yet, an increasing number of studies unequivocally demonstrate sensitivity in the simplest of organisms. For example, insects have the ability to experience complex emotional states such as anxiety and depression."

Someone please take the time to ready the 'studies' and let me know how to identify a depressed butterfly!

 

[Pano]

There's one right outside your window now!!

 

[scottjoplin]

He knows the end is nigh

 

[Evenharmonics]

If anyone is interested in information about animal agriculture and its effects on the planet, click the link below.

The facts

You should have fact checked that "facts" site.

 

[jtgofish]

I dont agree that its fundamentalist propaganda, each point has underneath it a link to detailed studies, or government websites, etc, of where all this information came from. Most of which could be considered as a reliable source. At the very least its an indication of the consequence of animal agriculture.

That is what propaganda does.It uses information in an unbalanced, biased and selective way to give a distorted version of the truth .Fundamentalist ideologies like veganism are especially prone to using such methods.

 

[Evenharmonics]

That is what propaganda does.It uses information in an unbalanced, biased and selective way to give a distorted version of the truth .Fundamentalist ideologies like veganism are especially prone to using such methods.

Just like the link posted by ryanj which shows "Livestock and their byproducts account for at least 32,000 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) per year, or 51% of all worldwide greenhouse gas emissions." when it's 15%, not 51.

 

[Pano]

Propaganda is used because of human nature. Rational arguments and facts are not very useful for swaying opinions.

Just see any cable thread.

 

[Evenharmonics]

In the case of cables, it's the selling point, also known as FUD.

 

[Galu]

I hope this doesn't constitute propaganda, but ladybirds (ladybugs in the US) always look happy and contented to me. Perhaps that's because they are so pretty and colourful.

The UK seven-spot ladybird has a shiny red body with black spots. Farmers love them because they eat aphids. In its year long life, a seven-spot ladybird can gobble more than 5,000 aphids, unless it gets eaten by a bird!

Isn't nature wonderful? A place for everything and everything in its place!

 

[Pano]

Unless they become an infestation, which had been a problem with ladybugs in the US.
I speak from experience. BTW, in large numbers they smell awful.

Outside on flowers they are nice.

 

[scottjoplin]

Aphids are born pregnant

 

[scottjoplin]

I've spent most of my working life as a gardener, I love "nature" (whatever that is). I've become intimate with plants and when one is sick or damaged or dying I feel empathy, I'm serious.....but...I get over it...I don't go all mushy or emotional....not for long anyway. I feel this is the way it should be if you want to engage healthily and realistically with the world

 

[Evenharmonics]

Unless they become an infestation, which had been a problem with ladybugs in the US.
I speak from experience. BTW, in large numbers they smell awful.

Outside on flowers they are nice.

Are you sure those aren't Asian ladybeetles which look similar to ladybug but behaves differently (bite)?

 

[Pano]

No, not sure. But none bit me, which might say more about me than them.

 

[Galu]

Unless they become an infestation, which had been a problem with ladybugs in the US.

That's what happens when the predator/prey population balance is disturbed. Food chains necessitate a fine balance in terms of the number of organisms at each link in the chain.

This balance is often disturbed by the action of humans.