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Guy exposed cable salesmen tricks, gets kicked out of audiophile society
Guy exposed cable salesmen tricks, gets kicked out of audiophile society
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Old 12th July 2018, 04:31 PM   #71
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Guy exposed cable salesmen tricks, gets kicked out of audiophile society
Having read that article about Bob Levi, I can see even more clearly his motivation. He has to rely on the good will of vendors to put on shows. Just like magazines need advertising revenue. You don't bite the hand that feeds you, nor do you let anyone else bite it. (Yes, I've been part of a sponsored room at T.H.E. Show)
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Old 12th July 2018, 04:38 PM   #72
Davey is offline Davey  United States
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That cable "manufacturers" resort to this sort of thing shouldn't be surprising.
It's all about marketing, and there's all kinds of self-deception and intellectual dishonesty at work in this crazy industry. Bob Levi clearly has an agenda and is part of the marketing.

Ultimately, it's the fault of gullible baby-boomer audiophiles continuing to purchase the products. This is an industry/consumers that's shot itself in the foot for years.....and I don't see any signs of it stopping.

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Old 12th July 2018, 04:51 PM   #73
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Old 12th July 2018, 05:42 PM   #74
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
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Guy exposed cable salesmen tricks, gets kicked out of audiophile society
I still think the blogger guy is on the higher road, but maybe would be better if before the comparison he asked "ok if I record this or do a level check"? Then either there would be a "no" (meaning: engage disbelief engines) or doing so would prevent the purposeful or (possibly) unintended fraud. As I mentioned earlier, it's sort of human nature to up the volume a bit to try to hear a difference, and there's nothing to compare to for the first audition run.
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Old 12th July 2018, 05:52 PM   #75
gpauk is offline gpauk  Scotland
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Good point.
But really, Bob Levi should just have ignored the Blog. He gave it oxygen.
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Old 12th July 2018, 06:36 PM   #76
Fast Eddie D is offline Fast Eddie D  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davey View Post
This is an industry/consumers that's shot itself in the foot for years.....and I don't see any signs of it stopping.

Dave.
This is the most succinct description of the industry I've ever read. Hi fi salesmen are on par with shady used car salesmen. They'll say anything they think they can get away with, exploiting any ignorance the consumer displays.

And the consumers are willfully ignorant, believing any voodoo that sounds good to them. It cracks me up when people that have spent enormous sums first hear my humble, home built equipment. Some simply don't believe it's real, like a hoax. They think I have "real" equipment hidden, or something like that. My neighbor, who spent several thousand dollars on Bose equipment so you know he knows what he's talking about, insists that my preamp must be digital because "only digital can sound so clean." He knows this for a fact because he read it in a magazine.

If I were a dishonest person, I could have made a fortune marketing this stuff.
 
Old 12th July 2018, 07:31 PM   #77
Pygmy is offline Pygmy  Netherlands
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Good point.
But really, Bob Levi should just have ignored the Blog. He gave it oxygen.
The Streisand Effect.
 
Old 13th July 2018, 03:09 AM   #78
BillWojo is offline BillWojo  United States
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If you read Mark Waldrep at his blog where he describes what happened at the show than you can't miss this line from him. "I found it curious that the presenter had to kneel down in front of the rig each time after the cables had been switched." Is it that hard to find the power switch? Or might he be adjusting the volume control.

I'm not a fan of snake oil salesman either so I think he was right calling him out on this. Over at the AK board this discussion has been going on for a bit as well.

I contacted Bob Levi and pointed him to the thread. He replied to me and asked me to post it. It's post number 57 under General Audio Discussion entitled "Interesting article on cables.....drama ensues..." I'm guessing that Bob is feeling that he should have left this whole thing alone. Now there is lots of publicity but of the wrong kind. It would be easy for the manufacture of the cable to put this to rest once and for all. A simple A/B test done scientifically by a few folks with nothing to gain would tell all. I'm not holding my breath.......

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Old 13th July 2018, 03:34 AM   #79
tomchr is offline tomchr  Canada
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Originally Posted by BillWojo View Post
It would be easy for the manufacture of the cable to put this to rest once and for all. A simple A/B test done scientifically by a few folks with nothing to gain would tell all. I'm not holding my breath.......
Actually no. It's rather hard, time consuming, and expensive to set up a controlled scientific experiment. If there is an effect of the power cable, it will likely be a small one or we'd all use fancy power cables. To achieve statistical significance with a small effect size, you need a large sample size. So you might end up having to have 200ish participants in your listening trial. These participants will all need to be compensated for their time, invited into the test facility, go through the experiment, etc. This is cumbersome and expensive.

The good news is that once we have all the participants' preferences (A or B), running the statistical analysis takes only a few seconds. We'll then know if there was a clear preference for A or B ... or not.

Of course then the bickering starts. After all, this is just one experiment run on a very small sample of the 7B population of the Earth. Clearly we need to run more experiments like this to be able to say anything that approaches definitive. Maybe there was a flaw in the experiment protocol. Maybe...

The cable manufacturer has absolutely zero incentive to set up this experiment. They'd be far better off putting the $k needed to run the experiment towards their marketing budget. "Our Super-Wissbang Cable is so amazing even SCIENTISTS can't figure out how it works!! Buy it now!!"

Tom
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Old 13th July 2018, 04:16 AM   #80
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
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Guy exposed cable salesmen tricks, gets kicked out of audiophile society
But the response was supposedly draw-dropping (excepting the guys who looked at levels). The exact same demo, but with volume levels not moved in between, could be done and jaw positions inspected. No, not proof, but proof isn't being looked for - just a demo done on a level playing field for the listeners. They still might listen with their eyes, expectations, prior reading, etc. but at least the audio only part wouldn't be slanted by any volume control foolishness. But, yeah, the vendor doesn't have any incentive to do that -- unless the product might do as professed to.
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