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John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part III
John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part III
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Old 6th July 2018, 04:16 PM   #6461
scott wurcer is offline scott wurcer  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPH View Post
I know, but I wanted to have fun staying with the piano theme.
The piano thing is fraught with problems. The human ear is incredibly sensitive to pitch and relative phase and amplitude changes are not pitch. Tuning one string on an instrument makes a new isolated pitch, even a uA741 can't do that. BTW are we still on jn's image shifts caused by amplifier/cable/speaker/etc. or something else?
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Old 6th July 2018, 05:09 PM   #6462
DPH is offline DPH  United States
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Yeah, pretty much any actual musical instrument (tuning forks maybe?) are going to make for imprecise masking experiments. Admittedly, they're far more interesting/fun to me than synthesized pure tones.

I don't know where we are. I thought there were arguments made in ignorance about jitter, and then, at least for me, my reaction to the opamp conference publication from McGill, that (to use a term) is also fraught with problems.
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Old 6th July 2018, 05:58 PM   #6463
DPH is offline DPH  United States
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Only across two octaves at maximum.
Thus J. S. Bach “The Well-Tempered Clavier”.
See On the sensations of tone as a physiological basis for the theory of music : Helmholtz, Hermann von, 1821-1894 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
Especially the scholarly footnotes of Alexander Ellis

George
There for a second I saw Seebeck's siren and got hopeful it was the same one that discovered the thermoelectric effect. Sadly.

P.S. that's clearly a copy from UC-Berkeley, one of my rival schools. Not sure I'm allowed to read it.
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Old 6th July 2018, 06:54 PM   #6464
gpapag is offline gpapag  Greece
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John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part III
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPH View Post
P.S. that's clearly a copy from UC-Berkeley, one of my rival schools. Not sure I'm allowed to read it.
It’s still on circulation.
On the Sensations of Tone (Dover Books on Music): Hermann Helmholtz: 9780486607535: Amazon.com: Books

I had made a bound photocopy of the old book but when I found the Dover print in 2004, I bought it.

>edit: On Tuning and Temperament there is also this book
https://ia800500.us.archive.org/1/it...amen00barb.pdf

George
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Old 6th July 2018, 07:27 PM   #6465
Markw4 is offline Markw4  United States
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Regarding stringed instruments there are basically two issues, 1) temperment, and 2) harmonics of strings are at higher pitches than the simplest theory would predict because string diameter is a factor in real string vibration. The virtual end point of the string is shorter at higher harmonics, so the harmonic pitch will be higher than expected. That is the reason for 'stretch tuning' pianos, to adjust out as much as possible the dissonances due to harmonics of lower strings being out of pitch with the fundamentals of higher strings.
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Old 6th July 2018, 08:28 PM   #6466
scott wurcer is offline scott wurcer  United States
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Regarding stringed instruments there are basically two issues,
Yes all of this is well known, so why would anyone suggest a physical instrument/mechanical experiment to determine the effects of circuits on the perceived sound? Circuits only produce inharmonic output under pathological conditions such as oscillation at certain loads/levels.
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Old 6th July 2018, 08:49 PM   #6467
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I think we're just having a side-discussion off Ed's piano question and my non-rigorous answer. I don't think there's any serious discussion going on here of using physical instruments for a masking experiment.
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Old 6th July 2018, 09:03 PM   #6468
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Although it sounds like a reasonable idea.
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Old 6th July 2018, 09:04 PM   #6469
scott wurcer is offline scott wurcer  United States
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I think we're just having a side-discussion off Ed's piano question
OK
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Old 6th July 2018, 10:39 PM   #6470
SyncTronX is offline SyncTronX  United States
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Location: Another Project Enters the Queue Oh My!
The Bosendorfer is an incredible instrument which I love to play,
sadly not that many times though. The Imperial 290 goes down to
C0! That is an extra octave in the bass. I've written music that can
go that low and with it you get that extra umph! which no other piano
can accomplish.

Some say it can be harsh and jarring...well yes when you want that and
juxtaposed against the beautiful harmonics and melodies of its timbre--it just doesn't
get much better.

Moving along, what are we attempting to mask?


PostScript: While many give kudos to the pianist, the drawback is that
it isn't portable. You end up playing on a bunch of out of tune instruments
that haven't been taken care of and have crappy heavy actions that haven't
been adjusted, missing and broken ivories/plastics Even at many music schools!
Unless you are a concert pianist and have endorsements....then you should always
bring your own stool, etc, etc and tuning tools, and on and on.


PostPostScript: Then every no and again you just might find an instrument sitting
somewhere that just plain works! Unlike guitar or bass or other instruments that
aren't so difficult to carry with you.
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Last edited by SyncTronX; 6th July 2018 at 10:53 PM.
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