John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part III

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@JN: If you ever get to London let me know, I'll take you to the clock gallery in the science museum and you can explain how on earth they made what they did back in the day. It always boggles my mind.
Was there, absolutely loved it. Went through every single thing in that building.

Also, did Greenwich...the tour guide was fantastic, Harrison's work was unbelievable..
Jn
 
@TT, not sure what you have against Tina S. She learned classical guitar and decided to branch into metal.
Nothing, as long as she stay, with her guitar, 10 blocks from my bedroom ;-)
She, and all the other little prodigies who play various instruments faster than their shadows.
No doubt, this said, they will learn very soon to play music (not a question of genre): The 'hard' part is done ;-)
 
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Hi John,
... nylon is apparently used for its self lubricating properties.
I've heard similar things about brass. However I don't think that lubrication is the issue with your material. Any clingy lubricant would probably work very well. Denon made some super slippery white grease, very thin. It would stick where ever you applied it and was drawn into parts that touched. They used the same stuff on the nylon parts. The over-riding issue would seem to be the differing expansion coefficients between nylon and any other metallic part. Who cares if there is higher wear on a part that fails by cracking?

-Chris
 
Luckily not, but I have an emotional thought for the dad of this one:
YouTube
He had to commit terrible crimes in a previous life.

This reminds me of the kids that play video games blindfolded. I witnessed a 12 year old playing Dance Dance Revolution and suddenly turn around backwards and do it perfectly without looking.

Are there actual notes here or mindless Malmsteen style shred.

Nothing, as long as she stay, with her guitar, 10 blocks from my bedroom ;-)
She, and all the other little prodigies who play various instruments faster than their shadows.
No doubt, this said, they will learn very soon to play music (not a question of genre): The 'hard' part is done ;-)
Sigh..
If she lived next door to me..

I would put my system together, even in my basement. And let her play.
If she needed it for the road, same.
Talent is talent. I do not care if it's a genre I listen to or not.
She does it effortlessly. Just watch. (I am proficient at seeing talent..I ran track, and have watched it from a distance..:(. )
She is much more than good.
Sorry to disagree, but you two are wrong..;)

Jn
 
Hi John,

I've heard similar things about brass. However I don't think that lubrication is the issue with your material. Any clingy lubricant would probably work very well. Denon made some super slippery white grease, very thin. It would stick where ever you applied it and was drawn into parts that touched. They used the same stuff on the nylon parts. The over-riding issue would seem to be the differing expansion coefficients between nylon and any other metallic part. Who cares if there is higher wear on a part that fails by cracking?

-Chris
I am not sure about the lube part, tomorrow I use the microscope. It was odd to see the wheel driving the worm, granted the worm pitch is pretty large. But the friction coefficient between steel and brass, not sure it brass will cut it. Remember, we are talking decades, not typical consumer electronics lifetime.
I don't think it was differential expansion, but rather the tensile force caused by a press fit of nylon over steel. Not sure if a 1 or 2 mil interference is appropriate. I'll try one mil, I may have to do a 10 to 15 mil pin through the shaft as a lock, or if I should buy a knurling tool for the lock. (Oh my goodness, an excuse to buy another tool..go figure.):D

Jn
 
No problem I've been wrong before, not counting on it this time. ;)
Just watching her...no effort, just music. Watch her body, no effort, no need. Shoulders relaxed no tension, face same. She doesn't need to concentrate. I can appreciate her performance, and sit in awe.

Totally excellent. It matters not what song she plays. She is a master unchallenged.

Jn
 
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Demian,

This is the kind of analysis that is required.


You should:
1. repeat the current vs diff run, taking note of which direction positive current drives the cone.
2. capture at least 40 cycles of the fundamental for both current and difference.
3. transfer it to excel
4. use the periodicity to average the waveform over the 40 cycles. This will clean the waveform up.
5. Fit the resultant error waveform to the current drive by gain subtraction to leave a residual.
6. Perform a harmonic analysis on the residual in the fashion I used here. that will show you the error vs excursion.

For a two tone test, you will require a lock between frequencies. Perhaps 10 times the fundamental, the lock needed for the averaging out function, you don't want to average out the higher tone. This test will show eddy drag modulation of the hf tone.

jn

The setup got torn down so I could clean up and update the lighting in the shop. I can set it up again and collect data as a wave file I think. Not sure how to pass that to Excel and then do the postprocessing however I'll be happy to send you the wave file (or CSV file) and you can do the rest.

What you want to see is the relationship between the current into the driver and the difference between the coils with only one coil driven, correct?

I can generate two tones with specific phase relationships and make them have a specific ratio. Again which frequencies? 20 Hz and 200 Hz or 20 Hz and 80 Hz?

On the larger issues- For some reason (probably relating to the viscosity of air) speakers tend to have low order harmonic and not much higher order stuff. That may be why amp distortions can matter for speakers even though they are usually orders of magnitude different. Non-linearities in a speaker should cause both IM and HD but don't seem to on the same level for some reason. This change may make a significant difference in the final speaker once we know how to see it and hear it. Unfortunately most people hear the harmonic distortion in woofers as "real bass" and rarely if ever hear a woofer that can deliver actual low bass. Full implementation would require multiamping with analog amps. The move to digital input amps with internal DSP may preclude many otherwise interesting options for this.
 
She will be a master only if she opens her heart and soul to all types of music. Heavy metal rock like she is player, and player easily, allows for mistakes that can’t be seen or heard unless you know the notes to the song. No question she is one in a billion as a guitarist But I hope she opens herself to different types of music. And that’s the only way to be a true master of music
 
The setup got torn down so I could clean up and update the lighting in the shop. I can set it up again and collect data as a wave file I think. Not sure how to pass that to Excel and then do the postprocessing however I'll be happy to send you the wave file (or CSV file) and you can do the rest.

What you want to see is the relationship between the current into the driver and the difference between the coils with only one coil driven, correct?

I can generate two tones with specific phase relationships and make them have a specific ratio. Again which frequencies? 20 Hz and 200 Hz or 20 Hz and 80 Hz?

On the larger issues- For some reason (probably relating to the viscosity of air) speakers tend to have low order harmonic and not much higher order stuff. That may be why amp distortions can matter for speakers even though they are usually orders of magnitude different. Non-linearities in a speaker should cause both IM and HD but don't seem to on the same level for some reason
.
No problem, life also gets in my way..:D
I've processed files saved at the scope level, and I've dealt with files pulled from controllers by the control IT guys. I can try the wave, but am not sure about conversion. The day is young. We either can do, or learn how.

As to what to see....

With a closed loop negative feedback system, the most important thing is the error signal. That tells you exactly what the system is trying to fix. In my examples, I show what the system is fighting. For the mechanical devices at work, it tells the mech guys the health of the equipment. In audio, it shows same. And, the most important thing of all? Diagnostics.
That is why I presented the pickup coil.

Two tone.. 40 and 400, 80 and 800. Both below the 1k upper driver limit, 40 gives excursion, 80 above resonance. One, both, no problem.
As to harmonics, we have to deal with order one cone at a time. It is important to walk first...
Jn
 
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She will be a master only if she opens her heart and soul to all types of music. Heavy metal rock like she is player, and player easily, allows for mistakes that can’t be seen or heard unless you know the notes to the song. No question she is one in a billion as a guitarist But I hope she opens herself to different types of music. And that’s the only way to be a true master of music

She will follow her heart. I heard no mistakes.

Excellence is as excellence does.
(I have absolutely no idea what that meant, but it really sounded deep, no??):D

I'm sorry, she is already a master. It remains to be seen if she can be forced to conform to what some really old guys on an audio forum believe is music.

Me personally, I do not care if I like her music, she is good.
Jn

Ps..I actually liked what she did, but that is beside the point..
 
I attribute this to the excellent TIME RESPONSE of the MET 7.

But MET 7 time response is not excellent. The only "quality" it has is the unipolarity, and this quality is questionable. The top and decay of the step response is grossly uneven and is not smooth, which reflects very messed up frequency response; both responses are tight together, as we all know.

Speaking about step response, there is another speaker much closer to the optimum.

917Kii3fig1.jpg


Sound preferences are so much subjective ;)
 
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I can set it up again and collect data as a wave file I think. Not sure how to pass that to Excel and then do the postprocessing


In Audacity, open the wav file. From the "Tools" menu use "Sample data export...".
Maximum number of samples is 1000000 (22 seconds for 44100 sample rate recording). Sampled value scale linear or dB.
You save the data in a .txt file

In Excel from “Data” menu use “Get External Data”, select that .txt file

George
 

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In Audacity, open the wav file. From the "Tools" menu use "Sample data export...".
Maximum number of samples is 1000000 (22 seconds for 44100 sample rate recording). Sampled value scale linear or dB.
You save the data in a .txt file

In Excel from “Data” menu use “Get External Data”, select that .txt file

George
On the excel import, dont forget to select the column and make it "text" or it will convert the numbers to floating point and or think some are dates and scramble tose numbers.
 
Sounded like Tina was playing classical guitar to me, except it was electric and she was using a plectrum, but what do I know? I generally don't listen to what people have to say about music in the same way I don't listen to them talk about sport.....can't think of anything more boring and pointless.

PS, I'd love to see someone analyse the noise floor modulation of that!
 
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