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John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part III
John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part III
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Old 22nd July 2019, 02:03 PM   #25911
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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My point is, you may have thought you expected to hear no difference, but subconsciously you may actually have expected to hear a difference, let's face it, you are practiced in listening for very small differences.
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Old 22nd July 2019, 02:04 PM   #25912
billshurv is online now billshurv  United Kingdom
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John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part III
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markw4 View Post
Perhaps oddly, sometimes it makes much more of a difference than it should. In some cases I have suspected RFI sensitivity of a circuit out on the bench might account for some of it. Some confirmation of that simply by dropping a circuit down inside an empty steel computer case laying on its side. The cases can be reasonably lossy at RF.
Easy enough to measure, for example the LM4562 has been known to very readily receive signals from DECT phones in the 1900MHz region.
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Old 22nd July 2019, 02:04 PM   #25913
Jakob2 is offline Jakob2  Germany
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Originally Posted by billshurv View Post
Doesn't matter. Anything that is anecdotal goes into the pot of no evidence or proof.
To be fair, even if it is evidence it often goes to the pot of silence, if the evidence is not to ones liking.
(I've mentioned our first set of listening tests with film capacitors in the past.)

Quote:
does CERN publish their capacitor shoot outs?
Is there a convincing line of reasoning why it must be impossible to detect audible differences in certain applications, just because CERN did not publish about capacitor shootouts?
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Old 22nd July 2019, 02:07 PM   #25914
billshurv is online now billshurv  United Kingdom
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John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part III
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Originally Posted by Jakob2 View Post
To be fair, even if it is evidence it often goes to the pot of silence, if the evidence is not to ones liking. (I've mentioned our first set of listening tests with film capacitors in the past.)
I would like to think I am not guily of that and apologise if I have been.

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Is there a convincing line of reasoning why it must be impossible to detect audible differences in certain applications, just because CERN did not publish about capacitor shootouts?
Just a feeble attempt at humour. As we all know, real men use wet slug tantalums for DC blocking.
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Old 22nd July 2019, 02:12 PM   #25915
Jakob2 is offline Jakob2  Germany
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Originally Posted by scott wurcer View Post
Read the capacitor/op-amp rolling threads that is rarely if ever the claim, typical results are a least a page of highly exaggerated prose detailing large changes up and down the audio spectrum.
Compared to the assertion that an audible difference can't exist, even the usual audio prosa seems to be quite reserved.

(Otherwise I agree that often a bit less enthusiastic/dramatic reports would be better)
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Old 22nd July 2019, 02:14 PM   #25916
syn08 is offline syn08  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakob2 View Post
The conditions were mentioned, analyzer was an AP.
Anecdotal? Seems we are in need of a semantic thread.

Clarke's first law comes into mind:

"When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong."

Nope, it was surprising as they not just took over the design, but the complete manufacturing line. And of course I checked the other possible effects first.
Understood, no data to show, the usual excuses. Just another story that goes to the pile of.
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Old 22nd July 2019, 02:16 PM   #25917
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Originally Posted by Jakob2 View Post
Compared to the assertion that an audible difference can't exist
That of course would be a very stupid assertion to make, I can't say I recall ever reading that here.
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Old 22nd July 2019, 02:17 PM   #25918
Markw4 is online now Markw4  United States
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Originally Posted by billshurv View Post
Easy enough to measure, for example the LM4562 has been known to very readily receive signals from DECT phones in the 1900MHz region.
Yes, they show FFT spurs in that case, and there happens to be a DECT phone base station here. In most cases, other than for LM4562 family parts, unplugging its power makes no audible or clear measurable difference.

However, clipping a scope ground lead to the tip as a makeshift antenna shows lots of RF activity down as low as 150MHz. Only one spot in the house shows attenuated RF, and that is directly in front of the middle of the dishwasher door in the kitchen. The direction blocked by it is off to the West, about 100mi of open space across the Sacramento Valley only blocked by the Coastal Mountains at the other side. At this location, I could probably use a walk-in Faraday cage for doing bench work. Lacking that, I have empty computer cases. Obviously, its a low budget operation.

Last edited by Markw4; 22nd July 2019 at 02:19 PM.
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Old 22nd July 2019, 02:19 PM   #25919
syn08 is offline syn08  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billshurv View Post
As we all know, real men use wet slug tantalums for DC blocking.
These capacitors never made it to the audio industry. Reason: there are capacitors "for audio" allowing an at least 10x markup, and the stories about capacitor sound would still hold.
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Old 22nd July 2019, 02:25 PM   #25920
Jakob2 is offline Jakob2  Germany
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@ billshurv,

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Originally Posted by billshurv View Post
I would like to think I am not guily of that and apologise if I have been.
No, just a general remark. It happens not only in case of (inconvenient) listening test results, but wrt evidence too.
I mentioned recently the .....err..um...a bit less than overwhelming appreciation for the evidence of the impact the various test protocols can have.

Quote:
Just a feeble attempt at humour. As we all know, real men use wet slug tantalums for DC blocking.
I thought so, but similar 'arguments' are posted quite often.....

@ syn08,

Quote:
Originally Posted by syn08 View Post
Understood, no data to show, the usual excuses. Just another story that goes to the pile of.
As the spin doctor nowadays insists that the FUD shouter is only jestering, I'll let it go.....
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