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John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part III
John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part III
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Old 19th May 2019, 10:42 AM   #19471
billshurv is online now billshurv  United Kingdom
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John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part III
Would have to be an SPU or EMT on that for full retro effect .
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Old 19th May 2019, 10:53 AM   #19472
mmerrill99 is offline mmerrill99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundAndMotion View Post
Individual hair cells (HCs) are not themselves tuned to frequencies. Rather, they live (are mounted) on a mechanically-tuned location of the basilar membrane and therefore respond in a tuned way (see anatomy). The attack of a bass note pluck does contain a transient HF component and the HF HCs do respond transiently, if they are alive.
Thanks fo rthe explanation S&M. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if the bass pluck does not contain transient frequencies where HF loss has occurred then there can be no difference in how it is perceived with/without this HF hearing loss. The normal age relate dHF hearing loss does depend on many factors but is it not usually > 13KHz & harmonics of bass notes rarely goes above 5KHz
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The basilar membrane will respond similarly with or without the HCs. The LF HCs will be stimulated quickly with a fast attack and slowly with a slow attack, and therefore will respond differently. Hearing is about both timing AND frequency, not OR. We perceive both envelope and frequencies, depending on... a bunch of things (see link)
Yes, that makes sense - thanks for reminding me that both freq & timing are both in play simultaneously in the spectrotemporal analyzer


Quote:
Hearing and equipment are different in this case. You can expect at least 3 different neural, and therefore perceptual, responses to a fast attack time bass pluck:
-Full spectrum sound, living HF HCs
-Full spectrum sound, dead HF HCs (the envelope is the same though)
-Low pass-filtered sound (if the LPF changed the envelope). With or without HF HCs, the response of the basilar membrane and therefore also the LF HCs will differ from the above 2 cases.
OK, so in summary, HF hearing loss will NOT change the perception of the attack portion of a sound as long as that doesn't contain frequencies where HF hearing loss has occurred?

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Originally Posted by rayma View Post
Well, this is subjective. But with non-repetitive waveforms like music, it isn't too surprising when one aspect seems to interact with another. In the case of Mike's Theta preamp, improving the HF also caused the perceived bass to be clearer and deeper, even though the measured bass was (of course) unchanged. A sine wave has one frequency, but a single pulse sine of only a few cycles has a continuous, wide spectrum, with a sinc function envelope.
I would suggest that you are hearing changes to some higher harmonics of the bass.
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Old 19th May 2019, 11:02 AM   #19473
Tournesol is online now Tournesol  Belgium
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And then ? Do-you prefer to be thick than cured by your auto-suggestion ?
If a placebo works, it is better than a real medecine: At least it do not have negative effects.

On my side, I had listened to some files provided by Max. Have not found any difference noticeable enough to be sure that , if any difference, it should be not the product of my own imagination/ self suggestion.
When I'm obliged to listen to a short sample back and forth several time to figure out a difference, I give-it up.

But I do not insult in public the guy that is convinced that something happens that matters. I just think there is a lot of think I can improve in my own system first that will make a real change.

As far I understand Max is not trying to sell anything. It is not like those Bybee magical objects, that are sold for a scandalous price.

Sorry, John, but, on my side, when it taste like snake oil, when it smell like snake oil, when it looks like snake oil, I consider...it has all the chances to be snake oil.
And, as several people I ordinary trust had tried those Bybee and not found any major difference, I will not lose my time and my money on it.
I do not understand, while you know that the simple name of Bybee makes a lot of people (including me) smile on this forum, that you insist talking of this, with no financial interest for you. You just lose some credibility. The worse is that you have admired you ... don't use those gadgets in your own system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmerrill99 View Post
I would suggest that you are hearing changes to some higher harmonics of the bass.
A bass do contain HFs. During the short time of the attack on the chord. Very few in the resonance. So, if you increase the treble (that we often do in studios), you will increase its presence and not change a lot of the harmonic content of the body of the note. And make the bass instrument more listenable on speakers that misses real basses.
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Old 19th May 2019, 11:41 AM   #19474
Max Headroom is offline Max Headroom  Australia
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Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
...Maybe you can explain to Mark how a BQP could restore his reverb tails if they have been removed from the signal by the converter (as alleged). Magic?
Audible changes according to changes in system current noises is to be expected, and is not magic.


Dan.

Last edited by Max Headroom; 19th May 2019 at 11:44 AM.
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Old 19th May 2019, 12:09 PM   #19475
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundAndMotion View Post
Individual hair cells (HCs) are not themselves tuned to frequencies. Rather, they live (are mounted) on a mechanically-tuned location of the basilar membrane and therefore respond in a tuned way (see anatomy). The attack of a bass note pluck does contain a transient HF component and the HF HCs do respond transiently, if they are alive. The basilar membrane will respond similarly with or without the HCs. The LF HCs will be stimulated quickly with a fast attack and slowly with a slow attack, and therefore will respond differently. Hearing is about both timing AND frequency, not OR. We perceive both envelope and frequencies, depending on... a bunch of things (see link)
Thanks, interesting, we need a neuroscientist here

If they respond in a tuned way surely that would mean they are time restricted?
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Old 19th May 2019, 12:10 PM   #19476
mmerrill99 is offline mmerrill99
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Originally Posted by Tournesol View Post
A bass do contain HFs. During the short time of the attack on the chord. Very few in the resonance. So, if you increase the treble (that we often do in studios), you will increase its presence and not change a lot of the harmonic content of the body of the note. And make the bass instrument more listenable on speakers that misses real basses.
Does the pluck itself of a bass string (as in slap bass playing) have HF content that can be in the range of normal age related HF hearing loss?
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Old 19th May 2019, 12:12 PM   #19477
scott wurcer is offline scott wurcer  United States
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Originally Posted by Max Headroom View Post
The likes of BQP is too 'far out' for their comprehension,
.
You forgot, I bought one with my own money. It did nothing, period (I didn't try the quack medical claims). When opened it looked like something someone had their kids make in the kitchen with a pair of sizzors, paper, and some copper foil. The coin cell connected into space was funny. The claims were explicit, the contrast and balance of ANY LCD monitor in its presence would be "improved" since this was to be done with no energy expenditure it qualifies as an extraordinary claim.

BTW berating and insulting someone after a result before others have completed creates an enormous bias. Imagine volunteer participants in a public test being sent out of the room after failing the first control. You act more like you have an agenda rather than any interest in a true test.

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Originally Posted by john curl View Post
Mark, how can they add distortion? It would be best not to judge without trying.
How can they reverse entropy? I suppose that's easier.
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Old 19th May 2019, 12:37 PM   #19478
Bonsai is offline Bonsai  Europe
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I read somewhere that the rise time of a bass drum thwack was 80 micro seconds.

Re BQP - this is really tiresome. What are we coming to when we try to ‘dignify’ products like this with science or engineering claims that are absolute voodoo.

And those of you that claim to be world class audio engineers should know better.

It’s like the guys who connect batteries to their speaker cables and claim they’re ‘tuning them for better sound’.

Come on!
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Old 19th May 2019, 12:53 PM   #19479
gpapag is offline gpapag  Greece
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John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part III
Quote:
Originally Posted by billshurv View Post
Would have to be an SPU or EMT on that for full retro effect .
This is not a joke.
That TT with that arm and one crystal cartridge the kind of those with the flipping needles was one of my early experiences with shellac and vinyl world (photo from internet but true to my memories)

Quote:
Originally Posted by scott wurcer View Post
The claims were explicit,
Scott
A close-up photo of the brochure enclosed in the package would be something I would love to see it posted.
A permanent public expose.

George
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Old 19th May 2019, 12:54 PM   #19480
Max Headroom is offline Max Headroom  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tournesol View Post
...On my side, I had listened to some files provided by Max. Have not found any difference noticeable enough to be sure that , if any difference, it should be not the product of my own imagination/ self suggestion.
Doubting your own ears ?.
Quote:
When I'm obliged to listen to a short sample back and forth several time to figure out a difference, I give-it up.
Hmmm, isn't that what we do while mixing/mastering.
Quote:
But I do not insult in public the guy that is convinced that something happens that matters. I just think there is a lot of think I can improve in my own system first that will make a real change.
Thanks T, I wish others understood that insult is injurious to the recipient and the forum as a whole....another truth is that the insultor insults himself in the end.
Anyway, perhaps the key is that your system requires refinements and therefore the playback files changes are obscured.

If you are unable to tell difference between 01 and 02 files easily then I say that your system needs better LR channel matching and better depth portrayal.
Quote:
As far I understand Max is not trying to sell anything. It is not like those Bybee magical objects, that are sold for a scandalous price.
True, I am not selling anything at this time, however I do intend that to change. High materials costs, high labour cost and low production rate scuttles BQP unfortunately. My approach is 'same but different' but at totally different price range and producability.
Quote:
Sorry, John, but, on my side, when it taste like snake oil, when it smell like snake oil, when it looks like snake oil, I consider...it has all the chances to be snake oil.
There are fruitful discussions and intelligent forum posts regarding BQP, it's not snake oil.
Quote:
And, as several people I ordinary trust had tried those Bybee and not found any major difference, I will not lose my time and my money on it.
I understand the trust factor, personal experience is accurate.
Quote:
I do not understand, while you know that the simple name of Bybee makes a lot of people (including me) smile on this forum, that you insist talking of this, with no financial interest for you. You just lose some credibility. The worse is that you have admired you ... don't use those gadgets in your own system.
IIRC JC does have BQP in his big system. All this smirking/ridicule from those who have not auditioned BQP is not logical, it is by definition disinformation, 'fake news'. Those who understand all there is to know about energy and energy transfer please step forward.

Dan.
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