How was the comparison set up, in-room live sound to be recorded and replayed in the same room with the microphone closer but your ears further away?
I agree. There is nothing specific in handling AM or FM signals, they are just textbook examples of signals that are bandwidth limited by the antialiasing brickwall filter.
As of the cymbal signal (or any other instrument signal, rich in HF components), I'm on the fence waiting for somebody to come up with data showing that the amount of energy over 20KHz, removed by a brickwall filter, is anywhere relevant to the listener experience. In particular the case of recording at high sampling rates (like 192KHz) followed by dithering + decimation to the CD format.
Last edited:
You'd probably need to take into account other issues such as sub par recording equipment, mixing/recording engineer pushing things too far, leakage of content on multi mic recording, loudness war and perhaps other factors for the the result to acquire such porky quality.
My mind interprets the content of these two posts as contradicting but as usual I see things distorted.
Therefore it is said that filtered frequencies higher than fs/2 won’t come back after resampling the 44.1kHz recording to higher fs, while amplitude modulation will be remedied after resampling the 44.1kHz recording to higher fs. Are these correct or wrong?
George
OK, John’s post talks about frequency content higher than fs/2 , while Scott refers to amplitude modulation at frequencies close to but below fs/2.
Therefore it is said that filtered frequencies higher than fs/2 won’t come back after resampling the 44.1kHz recording to higher fs, while amplitude modulation will be remedied after resampling the 44.1kHz recording to higher fs. Are these correct or wrong?
George
".....and ultimately who gives a **** anyway?...."
Where have you been hidding?
Who?
Sep 17, 2019 - Amazon is launching a new tier of its music service today, dubbed Amazon Music HD. ... 24-bit with sample rates that range from 44.1kHz up to 192kHz. ... likely that it'll pull some users — perhaps many — away from Tidal,
https://www.whathifi.com/features/where-can-you-buy-hi-res-music-here-are-top-download-sites
The Best HD Music Download Sites We Found on the Web | Digital Trends
There's a wide range of HD streaming services to choose from, with the likes of Amazon, Apple, Spotify and our 2019 Award-winning service Tidal offering unlimited access to huge catalogues of music, which can be streamed over the internet or a mobile network, or downloaded directly to your device for offline listening.
Lots all over the world. seems everyone (except you and 3 others) want it and are using it.
THx-RNMarsh
Last edited:
Well good for you. I am happy for you.
Enjoy your CD as long as you can. See ya.
I think there is now only one CD mechanism mfr still in business.
-Richard
Last edited:
I believe the mixup is strictly contextual.
Sampling below limit produces beat frequency envelope modulation to the digital data.(the fish).
At reconstruction with sufficient taps that can be fully recovered. It was not envelope modulation of the primary signal but an artifact of sampling close to limit.
I refer to signals close to limit where the amplitude modulation causes content above limit. After filter, that is gone forever.
Jn
Last edited:
You'd probably need to take into account other issues such as sub par recording equipment, mixing/recording engineer pushing things too far, leakage of content on multi mic recording, loudness war and perhaps other factors for the the result to acquire such porky quality.
All of those are certainly things to consider, but not relevant to the specific technical discussion.
When they dumped the dynamic range, it did make it a tad easier in the nightclub mixing from one song to the next. Prior to that I had to recall the volume setting for each and every recording. When I did spot mixes ( cuing up the exact beat location, then holding with volume set to full on that source until I pop it in) sometimes the level change was very dramatic. This was particularly bad on the 12 inch singles, one 5 minute song covering the entire side with groove modulation measured in inches...
Early CD's were pretty much the same, just slightly less so.
Jn
Well said, and it works both ways: lots of people listen to CD's or 16/44.1, but that doesn't mean it's good.
I have a cheap DAP, a Fiio I think, that has a cool in-vehicle feature: ignition on - music on. A thousand or so 24/96 or 192 tunes, and you're ready to go anywhere..
RNM,
Do you really think streaming audio is practical enough to make a CD (or lets re-phrase that, say a hard copy of the music, irregardless of sample rate) obsolete?
To me it would be a PITA to deal with at a party. Worse than having to deal with changing/flipping the record (LP) every 20 or so minutes. To me, using a cell phone or a computer to stream music in a party setting are a PITA.
Need to differentiate streaming music and downloading music for storage to be re-used later, which basically means ownership vs usage. There is $ and profits involved.
Do you really think streaming audio is practical enough to make a CD (or lets re-phrase that, say a hard copy of the music, irregardless of sample rate) obsolete?
To me it would be a PITA to deal with at a party. Worse than having to deal with changing/flipping the record (LP) every 20 or so minutes. To me, using a cell phone or a computer to stream music in a party setting are a PITA.
Need to differentiate streaming music and downloading music for storage to be re-used later, which basically means ownership vs usage. There is $ and profits involved.
What is DAP ? (Sorry, I'm from the anti acronym brigade)
On my side, I have modified my autoradio to add a bluetooth tiny board (psu isolated) that replace the cassette player. Even the play/pause previous/next buttons are working (with my smartphone). MP3 are OK in my car, I cannot hear any difference ;-) And it brings the same feature.
Found a very nice player for Android with a 10 band equalizer: Power-Amp.
I think so, and it is what i've done at home: All my records are in my PC now and I stream with the WIFI. I use my smartphone as a remote: with a nice Application to search what I want to listen-to. It shows the Jackets of the albums, and even the Lyrics While I don't understand why american and english singers don't sing in french like everybody. (One of the reason why I prefer their songs ? ;-)
I hate CDs since I found so many of my favorite records destroyed by mold. I always hated these fragile plastic boxes, these ridiculous little jackets, the difficulty of classifying and finding them, and the place they took in my listening room. The CDs are over, and I doubt very much that they will survive for a long time as fetish objects, like our old LP albums (which I also sampled)
Last edited:
Digital Audio Player, the replacement for the Walkman.
Even in a car with a low-end audio system, you can hear the difference between the CD and the MP3, and BT add yet another layer of confusion.
My compliments for your results with Adobe Audition, I have no experience with this program, but it looks very promising.
You are absolutely right that there is no frequency shift of the 20Khz component, but that this droop is caused by the -4.7 dB attenuation of the used Fir filter at that frequency, as also mentioned in my posting.
And yes, because the discussion was that sidebands could cause Nyquist problems, I made this raised cosine shortcut to produce a large amount of sidebands.
I called this a "quick and dirty" approach in my posting.
To be honest, I still don't get the concerns from some over sidebands causing problems, unless mediocre digital filters are being used.
And yes, of course the signal in the time domain will get a lot of ringing caused by the transfer curve of the brick wall filter, depending on changing amplitudes, as was also visible in Scott's Python simulation.
This ringing has nothing to do with a slew rate exceeding the filter's capacity as suggested not by you but somewhere earlier in this thread.
It also does in no way mean that the audio signal is being crippled.
That's the reason why you can't jump to conclusions by comparing the signal before and after brick wall filtering just because of this ringing and possible deviations from linear phase.
The whole exercise in my eyes is chasing ghosts, as also clearly shown in your much better picture than mine IMHO.
Hans
Must be some music aficionado species of mold that grows only in recording engineer environments; otherwise, mold would not attach to anything they cannot feed on.
He said a brickwall causes no shift. However, your data certainly did show such in time and in frequency. His data on the 5 by 20 shows centered on 20, whereas yours shows a real frequency shift. Why did your data show such? You mentioned a 250 tap, we were not told what KSTR used.
Because it has nothing to do with the mediocrity of the filter.
And this is proven by what data?
Nobody said it was crippled. I share your opinion that 44.1 is sufficient.
Nobody has jumped to conclusions. Well, actually you did by saying Gibbs ringing is not caused by excessive slew. I look forward to your opinion based in fact on that one.
W/R to my personal assessment of CD sound quality, it would indeed be a ghost, as I haven't heard a difference.
That said, you personally provided results which conflict with your verbage, but choose to not discuss it.
Jn
Last edited:
Perhaps the dust surrounding the old EEs protects their 5 CDs from the invasion of molds which seem to appreciate the metal layer of CDs even more than the coating of photographic lenses?
As I had a lot of CDs, they were stocked during some years in a friend's cellar, while I was immigrating in another country.
Last edited:
- Status
- Not open for further replies.