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John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part III
John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part III
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Old 6th March 2019, 08:13 PM   #15011
Markw4 is offline Markw4  United States
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First band I ever did live sound for was GD, at Pauley Ballroom in the Student Union building at UC Berkeley (where I was an EE undergraduate). Interesting night, went okay. I was also the lighting operator, first time for that too.
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Old 6th March 2019, 08:15 PM   #15012
Evenharmonics is offline Evenharmonics  United States
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Originally Posted by Tournesol View Post
Oh, no !

Do-you want to put all sound engineers and producers to unemployment and listen to aberrations ?
I'm not sure what kind of live music performances you've been used to but I like the ones I've sat through and if it is to be electronically reproduced, it should be as close to the live performance as possible.
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Old 6th March 2019, 08:17 PM   #15013
Evenharmonics is offline Evenharmonics  United States
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"You are free to fool yourself" was not one ?
Nope. But calling someone deaf in this context is.
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Old 6th March 2019, 08:30 PM   #15014
Zung is offline Zung  Switzerland
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... (I don't remember if they were two at his concert)? ...
Only Bill Kreutzmann played drums that night.

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... I thought that the main problem was the choice of those studio speakers. Not enough directivity, not enough efficiency. I think that, if they had used some equalized JBL PA horns, the emitting surface for the same power would have been much smaller, so less of the comb effect that annoyed me...
I personally am not a big fan of horns, having suffered too much from the like of Turbo Sound or Martin Audio. The mid-hi cluster of the Wall of Sound had some curvature to control the directivity, and the lo-mid stacks, being line sources, had some control on the vertical plane. I think that was the state of the art in the 70's. For the next breakthrough, you have to fast forward 10-20 years, with the generalization of the line arrays and mega-watts amps. But then it's the quality of the music itself that went down hill (think Techno).

Last edited by Zung; 6th March 2019 at 08:36 PM.
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Old 6th March 2019, 08:38 PM   #15015
Tournesol is offline Tournesol  Belgium
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I'm not sure what kind of live music performances you've been used to but I like the ones I've sat through and if it is to be electronically reproduced, it should be as close to the live performance as possible.
That's not R'N'R, my dear.

I don't listen often classical music since
YouTube
(My mother was a classical pianist, first price of the "conservatoire de Paris", imagine my childhood.;-)

I was not talking of live performance, but record production, the thing we listen at home and in our cars. Hifi. (I did a lot of live concerts P.A.s. for a big company too.)
Don't have-you noticed that we are several sound engineer, here, involved in electronic engineering and that we generally agree on most things. Mainly on the interest of making calculations with formulas and computers THEN listening with the ears ? The gang of subjectivists.

But that is enough for me on the subject.

To Zung, I agree to everything.
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Last edited by Tournesol; 6th March 2019 at 08:41 PM.
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Old 6th March 2019, 08:40 PM   #15016
Zung is offline Zung  Switzerland
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... But that is enough for me on the subject.
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Old 6th March 2019, 08:45 PM   #15017
Tournesol is offline Tournesol  Belgium
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One day, we should talk of horns, with Rn Marsh.
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Old 6th March 2019, 08:53 PM   #15018
Zung is offline Zung  Switzerland
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One day, we should talk of horns, with Rn Marsh.
I'll have to show you the JVC paper on sound propagation some day. It was an AES session, in Zurich I think, JC was there too. Basically, these gents took a miniature mic, move it along a grid while measuring the sound pressure, and synthesize the resulting waveform by calculation, amplitude, distance and time.

The result was pretty nice, but when it came to horns, WOW! It showed all the reflections from driver to phase plug, phase plug to horn, and horn to free air.

It was also funny, because the gents from JVC actually chickened out from presenting the paper because of some language issues, and asked Bart Locanthi, then an employee of JBL and therefore a competitor, to read the paper, and Bart complied. That's fraternity!
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Old 6th March 2019, 08:56 PM   #15019
john curl is offline john curl  United States
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Wow, what a reminiscence! Zung, I'm slightly confused, when did we first meet? You knew MB? (My true love and second wife) Almost nobody I know ever knew MB. The musician that I was going to be with in London in 1974 was Sue Milan, the first female principal (flute) in the RPO, as MB and I were forced apart by the IHEM (where I worked) by sending her home. So I took up with Sue. Sue was great, but from higher class than me, so it didn't last. However, at the end of the year, I contacted MB and then brought her back as my wife to be, and we were together for another 1 1/2 years in Switzerland. But Zung, when did you meet her? I just can't remember when we first met.
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Old 6th March 2019, 09:09 PM   #15020
john curl is offline john curl  United States
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Did we first meet at the AES, Zurich, Zung! Yes I was at that paper. It was great!
T, we deliberately designed out the JBL horns from the system because they just generated too much horn throat distortion. The GD had used them for years, but we switched over to that array of 5" JBL cones to not sound so distorted. It was all a compromise, and we stayed with Electrovoice T350 Alnico horn tweeters above 4K, because we could not find a better tweeter that also could put out the SPL. Even John Meyer liked the T-350 tweeters, and John Meyer and I started working on the next generation horns at IHEM, Montreux in 1974 and we succeeded in beating JBL and just about everybody else with a better horn PA speaker. Later, once the 'Wall of Sound' was retired for being just too cumbersome to use, the GD contacted John Meyer and started using his horn midrange, that was similar to what we developed in Montreux, and they used them for many years. This forced JBL and others to FINALLY redesign their horns and Richard Marsh has an example of their later developments.
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