Ah, now, stop being coy - all of them!
The domain I'm talking about is that used in auditory processing i.e how the sound wave (In whatever domain you want to view it) gets transposed/transformed into a nerve impulse - a single nerve impulse is not a sinewave - that is what I'm trying to express may be the atomicity of auditory perception, not all the nerve impulses that are derived from the series of sound pressure points which together form a sinewave
Sure all of science is seeking truth but only the arrogant ones make claims that they have it. Sure maths can be provably correct but when applied in the real world it's purity is no longer guaranteed
Hehe, I think it's one of those cases where extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, seriously, it doesn't matter whether I agree or not, but I would say I believe the chances are that any difference would be small and the number of people that would hear a difference would be small. I would also suggest that the only way to know if it was better would be by measurements, the idea being the preservation of as much information as possible could only benefit the reproduction from a psychoacoustic point of view.
This shows that speakers and room acoustic treatments are not what you sell.
What is your belief based on? Can't be based on any scientific facts.
Really? Then who spat out "Rubbish!!" on 20th July 2018 when that person wasn't addressing you in any way?
dealing with tinnitus
Scott,
Glad you asked, this is a subject that I know enough about to be useful. My own hearing is further complicated by an auditory threshold before the onset of pain that is 105db, the average being 120db - that is a huge difference, and I abhor very high sound pressure levels. I used to go clubbing regularly wearing stage quality ear plugs, otherwise my ears would ring for days afterwards.
The other thing that I find excruciatingly painful is distorted sound from an overrun amplifier. This explains my growing fascination with horn speakers. For me they are a cross between a gigantic hearing aid and a sonic waterfall, and I love them. They are also very revealing of poor quality recordings, and so I use a valve preamp buffer to mix in a nice bit of harmonic distortion to take the nasty grit out of hard edged micro transients.
So, to answer your question, I can listen to just about everything without pain or discomfort or to have any ringing in the ears after a prolonged listening session. There are days though, usually when I am stressed or tired, that my tinnitus is mental agony, and so I then listen to minimalist music principally made of drones, such as Brian Eno’s ‘Thursday Afternoon’ or Steve Reich’s ‘Music for 18 Musicians’ or my current favourite, the three hour long ‘Trilogies de la Morte’ by Eliane Radigue.
This last choice is made up from thousands of overdubbed drones made from sine waves, and is almost entirely free of hard edged attacking transients. At first, there doesn’t seem to be all that much happening, but that in itself makes one listen very deeply within an almost meditative state of concentration. So much so, that the three hours simply pass you by, and when the music stops, all you hear is a profound silence - completely free of tinnitus for anything up to three hours afterwards, and I can hear the proverbial drop of a pin.
I am given to understand that as a physiological condition, tinnitus occurs throughout the brain, and can be influenced by either raised or lowered states of consciousness. Thus, I try to live my life in a higher state of conscious awareness. Or at least I try ..........
Other sounds work as well, such as running water, rain, the sounds of the wind and the sea, rustling leaves and grasses. They seem to mask the tinnitus and convince the autonomous or subconscious mind that all is well with the world.
Just keep away from car alarms
ToS
Scott,
Glad you asked, this is a subject that I know enough about to be useful. My own hearing is further complicated by an auditory threshold before the onset of pain that is 105db, the average being 120db - that is a huge difference, and I abhor very high sound pressure levels. I used to go clubbing regularly wearing stage quality ear plugs, otherwise my ears would ring for days afterwards.
The other thing that I find excruciatingly painful is distorted sound from an overrun amplifier. This explains my growing fascination with horn speakers. For me they are a cross between a gigantic hearing aid and a sonic waterfall, and I love them. They are also very revealing of poor quality recordings, and so I use a valve preamp buffer to mix in a nice bit of harmonic distortion to take the nasty grit out of hard edged micro transients.
So, to answer your question, I can listen to just about everything without pain or discomfort or to have any ringing in the ears after a prolonged listening session. There are days though, usually when I am stressed or tired, that my tinnitus is mental agony, and so I then listen to minimalist music principally made of drones, such as Brian Eno’s ‘Thursday Afternoon’ or Steve Reich’s ‘Music for 18 Musicians’ or my current favourite, the three hour long ‘Trilogies de la Morte’ by Eliane Radigue.
This last choice is made up from thousands of overdubbed drones made from sine waves, and is almost entirely free of hard edged attacking transients. At first, there doesn’t seem to be all that much happening, but that in itself makes one listen very deeply within an almost meditative state of concentration. So much so, that the three hours simply pass you by, and when the music stops, all you hear is a profound silence - completely free of tinnitus for anything up to three hours afterwards, and I can hear the proverbial drop of a pin.
I am given to understand that as a physiological condition, tinnitus occurs throughout the brain, and can be influenced by either raised or lowered states of consciousness. Thus, I try to live my life in a higher state of conscious awareness. Or at least I try ..........
Other sounds work as well, such as running water, rain, the sounds of the wind and the sea, rustling leaves and grasses. They seem to mask the tinnitus and convince the autonomous or subconscious mind that all is well with the world.
Just keep away from car alarms
ToS
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I would not dare to discover where my pain threshold is but I certainly don't appreciate "loud" anymore. In fact I like to listen late at night at low levels. Sometimes when I have been listening a bit too loud I'm left with a low frequency hum but that goes after a while. I've thought about experimenting with second harmonic distortion but I've never got around to it.
I've found listening to dub reggae can help when my tinnitus is annoying me, I presume the contrast between the very low and a very high frequencies confuse my auditory cortex to such a degree that it attempts a quick rewire
I'm listening to Trilogies de la Morte at the moment
I've not generally found that masking works well for me. From a psychological point of view I've heard it suggested that the anxiety and stress that it can cause is connected with the fact that we perceive the noise as a threat and understanding that it's not can go a long way to alleviating the negative feelings. I've found this idea very helpful, ie all is well with the world
The last dozens of pages in this thread are puzzling to say the least. That long debate about sine waves doesn't help at all to address the initial question about whether or not testing an amp with various sine waves of fixed amplitude and frequencies is sufficient to assess its performance with a normal musical signal (non clipping, properly bandwidth limited).
As a Belgian, I enjoy surrealism but still...
As a Belgian, I enjoy surrealism but still...
The answer was "a bit" buried, but nevertheless somewhere; so, no, as the usual measurement with sine waves is a steady state measurement - means after applying the excitation signal, one waits until the system has settled to take the numbers - and therefore excludes by definition all transients.
I remember music (mainly minimalistic) pieces, that were quite near at "steady state" but in general, music is a bit more "transient" .....
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Just keep away from car alarms
ToS
Forgot, you must already be familiar with this label
Important Records – Imprec. They are THE source for rediscovering a lot of this music releasing new LP's and CD's from found tapes in some cases. The Boston area has always been one of the centers of interest in this music Harvard's station (WHRB) has a vast collection of live and unreleased stuff that they will sometimes play in large quantities during reading periods. 10hr. solid of Yamantaka Eye was memorable.
A lot of issues arise around traditional processor limitations, for instance it is now fairly easy for an average PC to take an entire musical piece with fade in and out to silence and transform it to the frequency domain and back again with no loss and nothing missed no matter what was there. I assume, say, 24/96 sampling with 64bit float math. There is of course possible loss in the analog domain for both A/D or DAC, but the transform math is lossless to ~-300dB.
Speaking of which, here is Demian’s triband test file, adapted for 48kHz sampling rate systems and 64k FFT length testing, no window function.
Dropbox - L+M+H (-6dB_dithered).wav - Simplify your life
(mono wav, 48k/24bit, 1min long)
George
Attachments
Is it really a commonly accepted and demonstrated answer ? Is there any "transient" in properly recorded music that would excite the system more so than a 20khz sine wave (or even better a multitone test with a 19khz or 20khz component) ? From Dan Lavry's post here, I'd guess not ?
Scott,
Yes, I have been to the Important Records website a few times and simply drooled (well, not quite, but it sounds good) and there discovered Pauline Oliveros, and bought her early electronic works album. It is fantastic to discover musicians like her, and so I’m waiting until the right moment to fire up the horn speaker. I am so glad that this kind of music is being taken seriously and curated properly.
Today, I was listening to Else Marie Pade’s “3.33” Tribute RMX’s and even though it is 60 years old, it sounded like it was written yesterday. It’s a great world out there.
ToS
Since your original question was about testing an amp, you are right. Damping however is relevant if you are testing the whole system
Perseverare diabolicum, but still fundamentally incorrect. "usual measurement with sines is a steady state measurement" is nonsense, let's try something to closer to your understanding this time, perhaps you'll get it: What is meant by 'steady state' in the phrasing: steady state measurement? - Quora. "Excludes by definition all transients" is also flat wrong, whatever real world input signal (including "transients", whatever way you define them) have a frequency domain representation as a sum of sines. Last time I've checked it is called Fourier Transform.
This nonsense reminds me of the "first cycle distortion" BS.
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...I then listen to minimalist music principally made of drones, such as Brian Eno’s ‘Thursday Afternoon’ or Steve Reich’s ‘Music for 18 Musicians’ or my current favourite, the three hour long ‘Trilogies de la Morte’ by Eliane Radigue...Just keep away from car alarms
ToS
All excellent listening! I was turned on to the Radigue by a long-time DJ on WWUH, Hartford. Fantastic long buildups in that piece. Along these lines although it may not suit your tinnitus pre-disposition is Fripp/Eno's Evening Star which I have enjoyed for years...
Cheers!
Howie
Ah ha, this gives me an idea, post whichever way I want, then claim that I only react the same way others treat me. Then if someone brings up my contradicting post many months later, say something about apologizing but if not, no further action necessary...
Got it. 
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