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#9991 |
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
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But it's not all measurements/simulations in F1 car development - drivers, test drive & give feedback about car handling, etc.
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#9992 | ||||
diyAudio Member
Join Date: May 2007
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Surely this is not bias at work? |
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#9993 | |
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Prague
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However, I do not think it is a technical point or real test parameters that are attacked. It is the ABX itself, by those who do not like the protocol. I understand it, but if I have a choice between technically well performed ABX and a sighted test, I would vote for the ABX. Further, where is the proof that the parameters like level equalization within 0.2dB were fulfilled in the sighted test? That would be my question to the oponnents.
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Pavel Macura http://pmacura.cz/audiopage.html https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/ever...d-preamps.html |
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#9994 | |
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Prague
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However, we still have a "null" ABX result, so we should not blame the result to a "poor" 0.2dB level matching.
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Pavel Macura http://pmacura.cz/audiopage.html https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/ever...d-preamps.html Last edited by PMA; 21st November 2018 at 11:11 AM. |
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#9995 |
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Penrhyndeudraeth
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Seems to me the bottom line is, it's probably easier to sell your overpriced, shiny gear if you can come up with a good enough reason to legitimise sighted tests.
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#9996 | |
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: germany
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So, the answer to your question is simple, use material where such difficulties does not exist; for example take the "wire sample" and use it to present the mentioned level difference as a positive control. |
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#9997 | |
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Sweden
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YouTube //
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More distortion to the people! |
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#9998 | ||||
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
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#9999 | |
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Prague
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Now, to your test with black boxes. I have read your description carefully. Please tell me, you, who say that 16 attempts in ABX is not enough and you consider it statistically unimportant, how valid is your 5/5 result in a semi-sighted, semi-blind test as you have described.
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Pavel Macura http://pmacura.cz/audiopage.html https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/ever...d-preamps.html |
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#10000 | |
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: germany
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![]() The most outspoken advocats for strict level equality were indeed the proponents of "blind" listening tests (in which was back then usually the ABX comparator was used). Level difference should be below 0.1 dB (iirc in the Clark amplifier challenge hhoyt mentioned the target was below 0.05 dB). Despite the "partisan" attribution there is good reason for best possible level equality especially when using fast/easy switching between the DUTs. In sighted listening the most common routine (iīve seen used) is/was to reduce the level to zero before changing the DUT and after the exchange to step the level up until listeners think itīs almost the same loudness as before. I have done some tests with (obviously unbiased listeners due to the results) humans to monitor what level difference using this routine will be actually result and found (by using music) that the difference was in the region of 0.3 dB - 0.8 dB, but randomly distributed between the two DUTs. As written quite often before, in this case the level difference presents an additional "noise" that might make detecting the real difference (if any exists) more difficult. If listeners are biased (under sighted conditions) it obviously can happen that the level difference will not be randomly distributed but in favour of one of the DUTs, so that should be monitored/ruled out. |
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