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Old 8th January 2018, 01:42 AM   #121
wintermute is offline wintermute  Australia
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The car thread
The method used in the test doesn't represent real world engine conditions by a long shot. What is interesting though, it is a consistent methodology used, and the results vary quite significantly. For that particular testing methodology there are big differences between the different oils tested, and the results (at least of the wear test) are as far as I can see objective.

So if you look at it from a worst case scenario, the higher rated oils should offer more protection than the lower rated oils. Whether or not it makes any difference at all in the real world however is the main question I doubt you can go wrong using a better rated oil though.

I know from years ago with my Pug the dealer was putting some sort of std mineral Valvoline oil in it (something like a 20W-40) I had quite high oil consumption (probably in the vicinity of 1L every 2500 KM). I changed to Mobil 1 (I think it was probably 10W-50) and oil consumption went down to less than 1L every 7500KM.

I've been running synthetic or semi synthetic oils in it since, and still at around 1L / 5000KM and I suspect most of that is leaking past the main seal, which is a bit worn at 260,000+KM.

Tony.
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Last edited by wintermute; 8th January 2018 at 01:43 AM. Reason: typo.
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Old 8th January 2018, 02:53 AM   #122
phase is offline phase  United States
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A buddy of mine had a Nissan Maxima that was purchased new, he never changed the oil, just added when needed.
It finally died after 166K.
Also, the junkyards are full of decent engines in otherwise worn out cars I have noticed.

I tend to drive my cars rather hard, so if I notice a performance increase from a certain weight or brand of oil, I will gravitate towards using that if it isn’t overly expensive. Certain weights will aid in sealing the rings, helping compression. I can see how the die hard by the book engineers would state that the engine was built to perform in a certain manner and that’s the way it is, however.

If you want to discuss some additives, some have shown to work at adding power, sounds like snake oil, but...
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Old 8th January 2018, 06:11 AM   #123
VenusFly is offline VenusFly  Australia
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The car thread
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Originally Posted by Ultima Thule View Post
I once ca 10 years ago did buy a fully synthetic 5W40 of a lesser brand and my car which has quite many kilometers behind started to smoke and did also smell badly, I changed it the next day to a known brand and the bad smelling smoke was gone, not going to save few Euros on oil which is changed maybe only ones a year.
If it only smokes on startup then it sounds like your valve stem seals are done for. Difficult but not a disastrous thing to happen to an engine.

If it does it continuously it could be that the oil is leaking past your piston rings. A leakdown test would be advisable but its not likely that you still have the car after 10 years. If its doing it continuously it could also be a bad PCV valve, the springs in them go soft over time and they will suck up oil into the intake manifold like a hobo sucking on a straw in a bowl of melted butter.

A fully synthetic oil will find all of the leaks in your engine and expose them, the reason why this is so is because a full synthetic will flow quicker to an area and lubricate that area whereas a mineral oil wont. As you can see in this video: YouTube

Generally its a good idea that if you have a high mileage engine that is in good shape and are going to switch to a synthetic-mix or a fully synthetic oil that you have all of the seals replaced on your engine first.

Its probably not worth it switching over to a synthetic if your engine is already worn as you probably aren't going to replace those seals anyway and it will just keep on leaking until it runs out of oil, probably best to then stick to a mineral oil.

Note that synthetic oils don't cause leaks they just expose the leaks that were there already and hidden from sight by the mineral oil not doing such a good job at getting into those areas.

if you want to keep on using synthetics a stop leak fluid should make those seals swell up and stop the leaks.
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Last edited by VenusFly; 8th January 2018 at 06:27 AM.
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Old 8th January 2018, 06:33 AM   #124
VenusFly is offline VenusFly  Australia
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The car thread
Here is some eye candy for you oil fiends out there. A 350,000km (217,479mi) Toyota Camry Vienta V6 3VZ-FE engine with regular oil changes its whole life. No idea what sort of oil was used but I can contact the mechanic who did it and ask. These pics were taken from when I replaced the forward bank tappet cover gasket. My mechanic did the rear one for me.

There is no scoring that I can see. Just the brand new ceramic coating that is put on cam lobes.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg diyaudio-204.jpg (412.1 KB, 149 views)
File Type: jpg diyaudio-205.jpg (236.6 KB, 149 views)
File Type: jpg diyaudio-206.jpg (240.2 KB, 86 views)
File Type: jpg diyaudio-207.jpg (272.4 KB, 86 views)
File Type: jpg diyaudio-208.jpg (282.9 KB, 84 views)
File Type: jpg diyaudio-209.jpg (345.1 KB, 40 views)
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Last edited by VenusFly; 8th January 2018 at 06:59 AM.
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Old 8th January 2018, 11:45 AM   #125
VenusFly is offline VenusFly  Australia
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The car thread
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Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
So if you look at it from a worst case scenario, the higher rated oils should offer more protection than the lower rated oils. Whether or not it makes any difference at all in the real world however is the main question I doubt you can go wrong using a better rated oil though.

I know from years ago with my Pug the dealer was putting some sort of std mineral Valvoline oil in it (something like a 20W-40) I had quite high oil consumption (probably in the vicinity of 1L every 2500 KM). I changed to Mobil 1 (I think it was probably 10W-50) and oil consumption went down to less than 1L every 7500KM.

I've been running synthetic or semi synthetic oils in it since, and still at around 1L / 5000KM and I suspect most of that is leaking past the main seal, which is a bit worn at 260,000+KM.

Tony.
First off lets make a definition between an oil leak and "oil consumption". Oil consumption is typically used for when your piston rings are so worn out that the oil leaks past them and burns in the combustion chamber. For this I would recommend Penrite HPR10 10w50. The only reason why I suggest a brand name here is because the Penrite 10w50 is the easiest to find and is the one most likely on sale.

What you are describing however is a gasket leak. So you will need to either fix the gasket by getting it replaced by a mechanic or use oil stop leak to make the gasket swell up and stop the leak. Then you can use a 5w40 or 10w40 oil. This will improve fuel economy and power output.

You should never go above 10w40 ever. The only time 50 weight is ever called for is in an engine which has been severely abused to the point that you have severely worn out piston rings and blow smoke if you were to use any lighter oil and you have noisy lifters which aren't getting lubrication.

A 50 weight oil consumes more energy to pump it around and as a result will put strain on your oil pump. In addition to this your engine will run hotter because its working harder to move your car around than it would with a lighter weight oil. As a result of this you will lose power by going to a 50 weight oil. I've tried driving a car up a hill with 20w50 and its atrociously underpowered.

So fix the oil leak by replacing the seal and use a 10w40 and you will be fine.

I've owned at least 6-7 cars in my time and I have tried every oil from 10w30 to 10w50, 15w40 and 20w50. You won't gain any additional wear protection by bumping the oil viscosity up to 50 weight if you are already using a 40 weight oil but you will if you are running the factory recommended 30 weight oil and go from 30 weight to 40 weight. 50 weight is just overkill period.

The protection that an oil provides is highly determined by the ambient temperature outside of your car. if you are in a cold climate then use a lighter oil, but if you're in Australia and its hot in your area then you should be using a heavier weight. I would have to go out into the middle of Australia and get into a region where it gets to the low 50 deg c temperatures with my aircon on while towing a trailer to consider using a 50 weight oil. And EVEN THEN I would still use a 10w50 oil.

40 weight oil is the perfect figure for cars in Australia.
5w40 is perfect if you live in a city or suburban area.
10w40 is perfect if you live in a suburban or mostly highway area.
15w40 is also perfect for mostly highway use with a little suburban driving.

If you live in an area where there is a street light every few km, then go with 5w40 or 10w40, the reason for this being is that you want your engine oil to warm up as quickly as possible because you are stopping and starting.

Fix the oil leak, that is the best thing you should do to protect your engine because if the oil level goes below that crosshatch pattern on your dipstick even once then its starving for oil.
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Last edited by VenusFly; 8th January 2018 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 8th January 2018, 11:49 AM   #126
radiosmuck is offline radiosmuck  Canada
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Meets North American warranty requirements for U.S., European and Japanese cars and light trucks with gasoline and gasoline turbo-charged engines where API SN and earlier API categories are specified.
The above is the label printed on all brands of oil, from inexpensive store brands to high priced synthetics.
The engine oil that works best for me is whatever is on sale.
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Old 8th January 2018, 12:20 PM   #127
VenusFly is offline VenusFly  Australia
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Originally Posted by radiosmuck View Post
The above is the label printed on all brands of oil, from inexpensive store brands to high priced synthetics.
The engine oil that works best for me is whatever is on sale.
The Bi Lo branded oil is like that too and I've used it and its fine. It was a tad thinner than the same weight of oil from a different brand though but it worked fine. But I've tried Nulon oil and it gave me noisy lifters despite being the exact same weight oil as the previous brand that I used. The noisy lifter symptom never went away until I got the oil out.

If you want to use whatever brand of oil is cheapest at the time then do so.

I've bought these brands over the years:
BiLo
Nulon
Penrite
Mobil 1
Valvoline
Caltex
Shell

Only reason why I'm going with a Mobil 1 Super 2000 X1/X2 oil the next change is because I want to see if there is any added benefits to this testing that the youtube channel "Piotr Tester" has done. I'm not paying more for the oil if anything I'm getting it cheaply at $33 AUD a bottle. So there is nothing "snake oil" about it and my last 5 Liters of oil cost me $13, was Caltex Magantec stop start.

If it works it works. Its not like I can scientifically test the engine in another 350,000km and compare the oil with another brand in another engine.

So I'm switching brands because:
#1 I'm not attached to any one brand.
#2 The Mobil 1 oil is on sale.
#3 My camry needs an oil change.
#4 Circumstantial evidence of some form of benefit that I can never hope to ever prove.
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Last edited by VenusFly; 8th January 2018 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 8th January 2018, 01:21 PM   #128
radiosmuck is offline radiosmuck  Canada
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I have never purchased a new car, I do not enjoy driving enough to warrant the expense.
I have always purchased good used vehicles and drove them into the ground.
When the scrapman cometh, it was never because of engine problems, they still ran perfectly.
This thread is turning again into a who can copy and paste the most contest. (grin)
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Old 8th January 2018, 02:10 PM   #129
Tubelab_com is offline Tubelab_com  United States
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There is a factory near here that "makes" motor oil. I know a few people who work there, I also interviewed for a job there, but didn't get hired (too old).

They get refined base oil stock in by the barge or tanker truck load. Then mix in the additive package provided or specified by the company that owns the brand label that will go on the bottle. The blend is then bottled, boxed, and palletized, and shipped out by truck.

This same plant makes everything from Walmart's house brand to several gas station brands (I think Shell is one), to a couple of major label brands.

So, indeed there isn't a big difference as to what's in the bottle.

The base lubricant in conventional oil used to be paraffin, that is being reduced, but I haven't kept up with the latest performance engine tech and a LOT has changed since I used to race cars.

The base lubricant in synthetic oil is a custom "long chain polymer" that withstands much higher temperatures before the chain breaks and the viscosity begins to thin. The only synthetic I ever used was Mobil 1 since that's what I was told to use by someone who knew a lot more about tweaking the Chrysler 2.2 Liter motor than I did, Carroll Shelby. It was also required for warranty coverage on the 90's Dodge Viper and the Z-06 Corvettes.

I did notice that conventional oil would get thinner inside the extremely hot turbocharger, allowing some oil to squeeze through the bushing and into the intake system, particularly in a worn turbo. This can be evidenced by a thin coating in the intercooler, and a small amount of white smoke out the exhaust on deceleration. The characteristic smell of burning engine oil could be detected. Engine oil can cause detonation, which would be detected by the knock sensor causing an immediate reduction in ignition timing, boost or both.

The car could be abused a bit harder before triggering knock sensor induced power loss on synthetic oil. Synthetic oil also has a burning plastic smell when you do manage to fry it.

I still use Mobil 1 in both my cars, based on my experiences about 30 years ago, but any quality brand of motor oil should be fine in a car that is not abused or raced.

Quote:
he never changed the oil, just added when needed. It finally died after 166K.
For the first 15 years or so of my driving history I would by a $200 car, drive it until it died, then repeat. Oil change.....never, just keep a bottle in the trunk and add it when the oil light blinked on hard cornering. The old slant 6 Chrysler (before 1974) engines would take this abuse for up to 200,000 miles! In the salty humid air of south Florida the body would rust off of the car before the powertrain would die. I had a 1965 Dodge Dart that I would floor in Neutral then drop into Drive.....Never broke anything. I gave it to my younger brother, who couldn't kill it either.....he sold it at 170,000 miles.

Don't try this on a modern engine. Many OHC engines have the camshafts running directly on machined surfaces in the cylinder head with no bearings (including the 2.2 L Chryslers that I used to race). Dirty oil will eventually clog the oil filter activating its bypass. Then the crud that should have been caught in the oil filter will cause camshaft seizure or clog an oil passage somewhere fun, like the timing chain squirter on a Chevy V6, causing some expensive parts breakage.
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Old 8th January 2018, 02:20 PM   #130
globalplayer is offline globalplayer  Germany
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Very interesting.
Thanks for sharing.
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