How the heck...
can a thermometer like this fail in use, but it did.
Bought two of these a couple of months ago, one for the fridge and one for the freezer. Checked the calibration in crushed ice when new and slid the column to 0C for both (hence the ink markings... good old Decon Dalo etch pens).
Yesterday the one in the freezer showed +12C. Kept looking at it and the reading was stuck. Put it into lukewarm water and it made it to 22C and stuck there. Ambient changes were not enough to move the column.
A squirt of freezer spray on the bulb brought it down to around -40 as far as I could tell (too much ice and frost to see) but from then on it is working correctly again.
What kind of failure mode could do that, and even more weird while it was just in use in a freezer. Absolutely bizarre and a new one on me. I can only guess there is some microscopic constriction or contamination inside but nothing is visible.
can a thermometer like this fail in use, but it did.
Bought two of these a couple of months ago, one for the fridge and one for the freezer. Checked the calibration in crushed ice when new and slid the column to 0C for both (hence the ink markings... good old Decon Dalo etch pens).
Yesterday the one in the freezer showed +12C. Kept looking at it and the reading was stuck. Put it into lukewarm water and it made it to 22C and stuck there. Ambient changes were not enough to move the column.
A squirt of freezer spray on the bulb brought it down to around -40 as far as I could tell (too much ice and frost to see) but from then on it is working correctly again.
What kind of failure mode could do that, and even more weird while it was just in use in a freezer. Absolutely bizarre and a new one on me. I can only guess there is some microscopic constriction or contamination inside but nothing is visible.
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China... it is very frustrating that the simplest of items one buys nowadays break down.
Clothing made of very very thin shine through cotton with polyester/bamboo/tencel (all because there is not enough cotton). Plastic that becomes powder. Don't even mention the rubberized coating on devices that becomes glue. Electronics that don't last 2 years. Construction with clearly planned obsolescence. The use of recycled materials with impurities. Stainless steel that rusts. Everyone gets used to it and accepts it. If one has old EU made devices, please take care of them as their replacement is way less good. Even the most optimistic customer will agree when he/she buys a cooling fan for home use today. The blades out of balance, no power at all, the stand made of 2 plastic pieces clicked in eachother totally not suitable for the weight...maximum lifetime 2 months...
Now even thermometers. Maybe we shouldn't have outsourced production of all the stuff we need to the far east.
Clothing made of very very thin shine through cotton with polyester/bamboo/tencel (all because there is not enough cotton). Plastic that becomes powder. Don't even mention the rubberized coating on devices that becomes glue. Electronics that don't last 2 years. Construction with clearly planned obsolescence. The use of recycled materials with impurities. Stainless steel that rusts. Everyone gets used to it and accepts it. If one has old EU made devices, please take care of them as their replacement is way less good. Even the most optimistic customer will agree when he/she buys a cooling fan for home use today. The blades out of balance, no power at all, the stand made of 2 plastic pieces clicked in eachother totally not suitable for the weight...maximum lifetime 2 months...
Now even thermometers. Maybe we shouldn't have outsourced production of all the stuff we need to the far east.
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Since I repair stuff I became aware and now buy second hand EU made devices produced decades ago and renovate them. That quality will not come back I am afraid.
Not that it will make a difference but I refuse Ikea, Jysk etc. stuff. Once very good and a deserved reputation now a channel for china made stuff in vast numbers.
Not that it will make a difference but I refuse Ikea, Jysk etc. stuff. Once very good and a deserved reputation now a channel for china made stuff in vast numbers.
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The question becomes: How do we pull out of this downward spiral in product quality? (Also, how do we discuss it without violating the TOS?)
Difficult isn't it
It is when we generalise we run into problems. If a particular product is demonstrably poor then personally I don't see a problem in saying so, it is when we say everything from this place or that place is rubbish that we run into problems.
I bought an LED desk lamp from a major supplier that many of use for component supplies. Functionally it was (is) good but the construction was terrible on my example. I did a scathing review with images on the site after receiving a standard email asking me to review my purchases and to their credit they allowed the review and following this asked if I could return the product.
At that point I had already repaired the defects myself. I received no further contact once I submitted the pictures of the poor build.
In fact it is still viewable. It was after posting this review that I was contacted by their quality control team.
Other products I have bought under this brand name have also been poor. Even tins of foam cleaner that squirt from under the nozzle and not through it, LED lights that fail after a few weeks and so on. A small oil filled radiator that shorted internally and tripped the main RCB. We have Dimplex oil filled ones that are nearly 60 years old, still good.
JP is correct, some of the old stuff is far superior in build quality.
Then there was the dreaded switchable mains plug as well (again same brand) which is (I think) in this thread from earlier this year as I recall.
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Even simple 230V 10 or 16A mains switches used in mains distributors as found in supermarkets etc. don't last longer than 6 months. The old ones can still be found as they practically never broke down. Ironic.
It is all a well deserved curse for buying cheap stuff. Buying cheap is buying twice (or more).
It is all a well deserved curse for buying cheap stuff. Buying cheap is buying twice (or more).
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Very true. That is usually something I always think of when buying tools.
These were the switches. They were incorrectly assembled and I would argue could be a fire risk:
What did you last repair??
Funny. I bought an LED worklamp from Home Despot. The driver failed within a month so I replaced it with the cheapest thing I could find on eBay - A no name Chinese 30W LED driver. It's been working for years now.
Nothing wrong with China. If you picked up that factory that made the crap switches and put it in Japan, the switches would still be cheap garbage - by design. Everything to a price point and quality, right?
Nothing wrong with China. If you picked up that factory that made the crap switches and put it in Japan, the switches would still be cheap garbage - by design. Everything to a price point and quality, right?
Hi I worked in China. There is a lot wrong there as main parameters are low price and high production numbers. Contrary to Japan there is almost no pride in making quality stuff. Quality is only maintained when there is a westerner there to check and prove quality. It is probably culturally determined but buying cheap will not give best results and it is not cheaper on the long term. Most are into high quality audio for best results against an affordable price. Most of the repairs or modifications I do are because of someone else deciding for the cheapest way of doing things.
Please compare bench instruments of Chinese and Japanese quality. Even the switches in Japanese equipment last for decades.
IMO buying cheap garbage just keeps the cycle turning. It is certainly not green. It is keeping the conveyor belts in factories over there running.
Please compare bench instruments of Chinese and Japanese quality. Even the switches in Japanese equipment last for decades.
IMO buying cheap garbage just keeps the cycle turning. It is certainly not green. It is keeping the conveyor belts in factories over there running.
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You pay peanuts you get garbage. That is the curse of the westerner buying crap. The west and Japan made much better quality. Anyone with some experience in repairing stuff knows this fact. I also worked for a few Japanese companies in the past. Japanese teams came over to inspect complaints and we got a bonus when we found a failure that could be prevented in the design (of stuff still in production, otherwise it was a no go). Kaizen is unknown in China, in China it is chabuduo ("good enough"). It should be no surprise that Japanese audio is often built a very nice way with much care for detail, performance and longevity. One can learn a great deal by inspection of Japanese construction techniques which aim for perfection.
Apple hardware is not garbage and quality control is strict which should be no surprise for such high prices, one could have a strong point regarding the situation of the labourers that produce the items. Even if the items would be produced in concentration camps, that has hardly something to do with quality (unfortunately).
Apple hardware is not garbage and quality control is strict which should be no surprise for such high prices, one could have a strong point regarding the situation of the labourers that produce the items. Even if the items would be produced in concentration camps, that has hardly something to do with quality (unfortunately).
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I worked for Motorola for 41 years. I started as a tech on the end of the assembly line checking and fixing each unit before final assembly. In 1973 quality was measured in DPU, Defects Per Unit and that number was greater than 1, often 2 or 3 on a complex hand held police walkie talkie.
Somewhere in the mid 70's Motorola got the Nippon Telephone and Telegraph pager contract. NTT put THEIR quality people in OUR Florida factory and design center to teach US about DESIGNING IN and MANUFACTURING quality. Within a few years the DPU metric was changed to DPHU (hundred units) and the number was far less than 1. Using what the Japanese taught us about the TRUE cost of bad product, most of our designs were revamped as were the assembly lines.
Some hopelessly poor quality products were killed, or sold to a Japanese company. Quasar was sold to Panasonic, but it was too late the name was already associated with poor quality junk. I owned a 70's vintage "works in a drawer" Quasar TV. You had to keep opening and slamming that drawer to get the TV to work, and the tuner could only get some channels. It would be a different set of channels the next day. Throwing a shoe at it could often change the available channels.
We made good phones and two way radios in Florida until the Wall Street Wizards took over control of the company, restructured the company, parted it out and sold off the parts like a junk car. During this multi year transition, phone manufacturing went to a factory in China, the exact same Foxconn factory where Apple and a few others had their phones made. One or more Motorola people had to be present at all times or the shenanigans would happen, usually reels of good parts would get swapped for junk parts to save a few pennies. At a million phones a month, pennies count. So do mistakes!
Ever see 20,000 phones all with a PNP transistor where an NPN goes, when there is NO similar sized PNP anywhere else in the phone? all were scrapped. Ever wonder where the $39 Razr phones on Ebay with the Chinglish MotoManual came from? Yes, those 20K scrapped phones were sold out the back door. Ditto the $3 Chinese 6L6GC's that I got on Ebay. Some blew up, some worked, a few still do 15 years later.
After the break up the phone unit in Florida was shut down. Most of the good people were laid off, and the remnants were sold to Google, who kept the patents and sold the rest to Lenovo, a Chinese company. I have two Lenovarola (our pet name) phones. They are good phones for a low price, so it CAN be done. I have no idea if the phones are still made at Foxconn or not.
When there were suddenly about 400 unemployed phone designers on the job market in Florida, RIM (Blackberry) and Foxconn set up design centers and hired most of them. Foxconn just wanted to learn the technology, and used the people to learn from. Several of my friends spent time in China, and yes the suicide nets are real. I have seen clandestine pictures from that factory. The Foxconn design center in Florida lasted a few years and closed.
The Blackberry design center was bought by Ford and now designs vehicle "infotainment" and other systems that replace the disastrous Sync system powered by Microsoft. It's fun when Sync gets a BSOD and refuses to allow the Edge to start on a rainy day when I was the designated driver. Their new pet name is FordBerry.
I rarely - if ever - buy anything new. The part of America where I live is such an overflowing cornucopia of stuff - if you've the patience to look around and wait. Used?
The main cast iron wok I cook with, the utensils I eat with, the wood for my speaker cabinets, the drivers, my oscilloscope, electric lawnmower, the shoes on my feet, clothes, the guitars I play, the amplifiers for them, the ladder I climb, my soldering iron (well, one), the scale I weigh shipments on, my bicycle, art on the wall, most of the music I listen to, my Starbucks espresso machine, all 8 PC computers, the power supplies for both audio systems, table saw, bench grinder, bench sander; most of the tools I own, the table and chairs in my kitchen, my oak RR desk, both workbenches, my floor jack, air compressor, cable modem, router, NAS, laser printer, my iPhone 6, even our dog - all second hand / used / refurbished / someone else's discards.
We have bought some things new. The sofa set, the LG big screen TV, the Subaru Forrester, a glass kettle for boiling water, my Lii Audio F15s, my Zoudio amps, a pear, apple and cherry tree.
I guess when buying used, stuff is well past the infant mortality phase of the bathtub curve ;') But it's really about the abject abundance of stuff available, much of which can find good utility with a new owner, rather than rotting in the ground somewhere and re-lining someone's pocket to buy a new replacement. If I were any manufacturer, I'd hate the used market and lobby to have everything second hand illegal to resell and require mandatory destruction.
The main cast iron wok I cook with, the utensils I eat with, the wood for my speaker cabinets, the drivers, my oscilloscope, electric lawnmower, the shoes on my feet, clothes, the guitars I play, the amplifiers for them, the ladder I climb, my soldering iron (well, one), the scale I weigh shipments on, my bicycle, art on the wall, most of the music I listen to, my Starbucks espresso machine, all 8 PC computers, the power supplies for both audio systems, table saw, bench grinder, bench sander; most of the tools I own, the table and chairs in my kitchen, my oak RR desk, both workbenches, my floor jack, air compressor, cable modem, router, NAS, laser printer, my iPhone 6, even our dog - all second hand / used / refurbished / someone else's discards.
We have bought some things new. The sofa set, the LG big screen TV, the Subaru Forrester, a glass kettle for boiling water, my Lii Audio F15s, my Zoudio amps, a pear, apple and cherry tree.
I guess when buying used, stuff is well past the infant mortality phase of the bathtub curve ;') But it's really about the abject abundance of stuff available, much of which can find good utility with a new owner, rather than rotting in the ground somewhere and re-lining someone's pocket to buy a new replacement. If I were any manufacturer, I'd hate the used market and lobby to have everything second hand illegal to resell and require mandatory destruction.
Bravo! I mean this. Infant mortality and the bathtub curve.... many recent products die when they enter the curve (or when they're still in the box)
We should indeed defend the rights to repair and to resell used stuff as private persons. I once was at a recycling plant where sealed boxes with brand new electrolytic capacitors of a known A brand were destroyed in large numbers. I asked what the problem was (and if I could take a few, I admit). The answer was:"nothing, they were not sold".
@ George: thanks for confirming what is generally known by techs of all sorts. The Japanese were/are really good with improving designs. They were taught after the war and improved on themselves mainly because of their culture. China lacks that culture. Maybe they will learn too. but till now I guesstimate that at least 30% of the stuff that gets exported is a "waste of oil" as I call it. The whole trouble is that universities in Europe are crowded with Chinese students all getting taught our technology only to become better competitors which will not be in our benefit. Eh... which competition?!
We should indeed defend the rights to repair and to resell used stuff as private persons. I once was at a recycling plant where sealed boxes with brand new electrolytic capacitors of a known A brand were destroyed in large numbers. I asked what the problem was (and if I could take a few, I admit). The answer was:"nothing, they were not sold".
@ George: thanks for confirming what is generally known by techs of all sorts. The Japanese were/are really good with improving designs. They were taught after the war and improved on themselves mainly because of their culture. China lacks that culture. Maybe they will learn too. but till now I guesstimate that at least 30% of the stuff that gets exported is a "waste of oil" as I call it. The whole trouble is that universities in Europe are crowded with Chinese students all getting taught our technology only to become better competitors which will not be in our benefit. Eh... which competition?!
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As a tech, over the decades I've watched the changes, the quality of things, slide down into cheap crap.
The increasing eye candy dazzle of LED's, fancy control panels, with basically junk hidden behind them.
As for me, I have very little china-made stuff in my house.
Because most of my stuff is vintage, (USA/Germany/UK/Japan) and still going strong.
I've no need to spend money on something new, because of advertising or peer pressure.
I've got everything I need..... almost.
That is easy to understand. I decided that when I DIY something the quality should mechanically and electronically be almost perfect so Kaizen. Old construction techniques with modern technology so IMO best of both words.
Too bad it is most timeconsuming Great pride when it functions as it should.
Too bad it is most timeconsuming
Great pride when it functions as it should.
It's roiling the farm equipment sector in the US at the moment. The tractors have become so high tech that they sense moisture and nutrients on the fly and implant seed in real time. Yet it can take critical days to repair these increasingly complex devices.
This summer, the UK Spectator had an article: "How the Chinese bought Cambridge".
When I was visiting technical universities in the Netherlands and Germany the teachers were very political correct but some stated openly that they were destroying Europe in a way (enough to be declared fascist nowadays). Some mentioned that the money the Chinese students bring is necessary for the university to survive... Meanwhile the woke disease from over the pond has started to gain root firmly. Diverting attention, it always seems to work.
I have nothing against no one but the motto once was to invest in knowledge of the own population.
I have nothing against no one but the motto once was to invest in knowledge of the own population.
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