quality of new threads going downhill

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Meh. That's always been interpreted to mean "in the body of a post". Sig line commercial links have been used and encouraged as long as I can remember.

FWIW, the commercial links that people consistently complain about are people openly selling wares and goods in posts outside the Swap Meet or Vendor Bazaar.
 
Note: There is another type (somewhat rare) of people trying to gather information here on the forum for designing a commercial project. Those really get people hot. :devilr:

Those can be funny. If it's disclosed, fine.

I remember quite a few years back there was someone who started on the forum as a neophyte, learned a tremendous amount, and offered a DAC as a commercial product to the forum. That upset people, but not knowing more detail, it sounds fine to me.
 
I get a bit annoyed at people seeking free consultancy so they can, they hope, make some money. What can be funny, in a perverse sort of way, is those who arrive here with a 'bright idea' which we then shoot down in flames (because it is actually a daft idea) so they disappear but usually after insulting us (deaf/poor/stupid are the usual insults, but 'never heard real music' also crops up, with the ultimate insult being 'conventional engineer').
 
I get a bit annoyed at people seeking free consultancy so they can, they hope, make some money.

It can be a 'fine line' between such 'entrepreneurs' and simple hobbyists who may be:

a)Selling 'excess projects' in the SwapMeet or online at auction (WAF, etc. ..."What do we need another ampllifier for?")

b)Thinking they are doing other hobbyists a favour by, for example, getting a PCB designed and made, and selling some to recoup their costs. Another similar case would be sourcing hard-to-find components and selling them as a package or kit to other hobbyists.

For myself, I can't find anything much to get outraged about here at diyaudio and I don't find there's much commercialism here at all. The moderators are certainly diligent :eek: .

But I'm no 'expert' and I suppose I've gotten used to having my online news and music and browsing accompanied by a pile of advertising. :)
 
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I disagree with wintermute, if there's a commercial signature, it is breaking the rules as written, just not to the unwritten interpretation being assumed.

There's an easy way to fix that. We amend the rules to state that sig line links to commercial interests are allowed and encouraged.

As DF96 and Pano have said it is useful to members to know that someone posting has a commercial interest.

I'll once again remind everyone that the moderators do not see every single post or thread that is posted on diyAudio. We rely a great deal on the members reporting things that are not right. If you see something that you feel is rules breaking (please don't report sig lines with commercial links :D ) then report it!

Tony.
 
There's an easy way to fix that. We amend the rules to state that sig line links to commercial interests are allowed and encouraged.

As DF96 and Pano have said it is useful to members to know that someone posting has a commercial interest.

I agree with this concept.
Not just 'allowed and encouraged', but compulsory.
And not just vague 'Exploring frontiers in audio'-type sigs, but 'Designer and seller of xxxxxxx'.
 
VictoriaGuy said:
It can be a 'fine line' between such 'entrepreneurs' and simple hobbyists who may be:
No, I think it is usually fairly obvious whether someone is a hobbyist who wants to sell a few items or a businessman who doesn't see the need to pay for inputs to his business. A good test is whether the person has been active on here as a hobbyist before they get the commercial idea. Another test is what sort of questions they ask; I have seen people on here who basically want their product designed by us - although there are a few 'DIYers' on here who seem to suffer from the same problem, never actually learning anything but starting from scratch and asking basic questions for each new project. I am sometimes tempted to point out that DIY means Do It Yourself - we can help, but why should we do it for you? Maybe we should have a forum area for DIFMaudio: Do It For Me audio.
 
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Well, I guess the rules could use a revamp if they are to be taken literally. We mostly understand the intent of the rules as listed. Part of the decision on posts concerns how helpful the member in question, so the same post made by two different members might be ruled on in different ways. We try to divine the intent of a post and that is affected by surrounding posts and how a member has acted in the past. This is the most fair way to apply the rules. We try to maximize the value of the posts to our membership while attempting to keep information correct and truthful. It's darned near impossible for rules to be written that can allow for a little flexibility.

For the most part, if there is any gray area with a post, it is discussed between the moderators to reach a consensus. Then we apply the rules for the best fit. This shouldn't come as any surprise to our members who have been here longer. We may make an error, but we are always willing to look at a decision again when there is solid evidence that might change the outcome of a ruling.

Links in your signature lines are allowed for private and commercial members because it serves the greater good to have a person's commercial interest known. Some members, like Nelson Pass, have a track record of posting honestly whether it is beneficial to him or not. The important point is that our membership knows where Nelson (in this case) is coming from. It can be really helpful to a member to know they can contact a member for some item or work done.

I would be solidly against eliminating commercial links in signature lines. This information is critical in determining where a member's interests may come from.

Our decisions and posted rules are all about maximizing the value of this site to its members. We take that job seriously, and since this isn't a paid position, our input is free from external influence. No one is on the "take". We all care about the forum and its members, and that means even the grumpy members. It is also why we can't moderate technical correctness, our members self moderate that aspect. We are here to help members with the nuts and bolts of getting something done on the forum, or with bullies and assorted negative personalities.

-Chris
 
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Hi DF96,
I am sometimes tempted to point out that DIY means Do It Yourself - we can help, but why should we do it for you? Maybe we should have a forum area for DIFMaudio: Do It For Me audio.
LOL ! I hear you on this.

Another issue are those students who have a project they have to do and actually try to have the membership do it for them. That isn't allowed either. Besides, they are only cheating themselves if they don't do the work.

-Chris
 
Note: There is another type (somewhat rare) of people trying to gather information here on the forum for designing a commercial project. Those really get people hot. :devilr:
If they are smart you wouldn't be able to tell, but then if they were smart they wouldn't ask such important questions on an internet forum now, would they? ;) Usually it is quite easy to tell and it would be interesting to see the Frankenstein creations they probably come up with with such disparate advice :yikes:
 
I'll once again remind everyone that the moderators do not see every single post or thread that is posted on diyAudio. We rely a great deal on the members reporting things that are not right. If you see something that you feel is rules breaking (please don't report sig lines with commercial links :D ) then report it!
But then the report page shows the following. "This is to be used to report rule breaking posts or bring specific matters to the Moderator's attention. It is not to be abused. Overuse will result in penalties." We are damned if we do, damned if we don't. Perhaps that portion of regulation needs to be revisited by those who make the rules? :scratch:
 
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