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Old 11th January 2019, 02:35 AM   #731
tapestryofsound is offline tapestryofsound  Scotland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syn08 View Post
I meant, what can be measured at a 30K system temperature, in terms of sensitivity. Hint: you can hear the Big Bang original 3K background radiation.

Scott may share some details about what/how they discriminate from noise and measure at LIGO, via what essentially is a parametric amplifier with some 200dB gain (if memory serves).
Sorry to say I still cannot understand a single word of what you write - alas, I will never be a guru. ToS
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Old 11th January 2019, 07:45 AM   #732
KaffiMann is offline KaffiMann  Norway
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quality of new threads going downhill
Oh! Seems someone else other than me upvoted this thread!
I voted for four stars yesterday because it's picked up a bit, but nothing happened then.

So:
No Guru status.

Yes Beginner section with more documented, and relatively easy builds (possibly some kit based like ACA?).

Nnnnnyay?! "Like" button.

Nnnnnyay?! to my "Wonder if there could be some other measure or "Quality badge" that could be in the "Donation badge" area." (post 675)

... And no fireworks button to trigger stuff outside of Jasons house?

Did I miss anything?
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Old 11th January 2019, 12:10 PM   #733
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leadbelly
I'd bet a coffee and donut that the "this opamp sounds better" post get more likes and the "1/4 page on why the designer chose the opamp they did and why you're unlikely to do better" post gets more dislikes.
Yes. For some reason, in audio (and radio antennas), false information is often more popular and deemed more helpful than the truth.

Quote:
Yeah, I don't think you could make a system that would work. Remember, the newbie could be an audiophool, and wanting an audiophool answer. This lack of objective measure screws everything up.
Yes. In many areas there is an objective measure (does it accord with known and accepted science) but not all accept this objective measure. They prefer mystery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scott wurcer
I don't either, but I do remember a suggestion that there be a forum where demanding DBT, etc. would be forbidden. I have been asked by at least one member to not comment in their threads (IIRC re: scalar waves and Schumann resonators) and I complied.
Sometimes a thread starter will specify that he is not interested in replies based on sound engineering principles, although that is not exactly how he will phrase it. In most cases I respect his wishes and keep away from such threads, but sometimes the temptation to join in overwhelms me - especially when complete nonsense is being taught to newbies as though it were established fact. Of course, such thread starters never seem to feel obliged to stay away from engineering-based discussions in other threads.
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Old 11th January 2019, 12:53 PM   #734
KaffiMann is offline KaffiMann  Norway
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quality of new threads going downhill
DF96, If I had the power to dish out some neat Quality Badges, you'd get one.
Maybe one with a sort of solder iron logo, or some circuit overlay.

... And I could have a Chanterelle. :-)
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Old 11th January 2019, 01:55 PM   #735
radiosmuck is offline radiosmuck  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyTecson View Post
i never applied for and was surprised myself, who am i to refuse? its the least i can do for this great board... when you become a mod, you will know...
To me, the moderators are chosen from the members that are well above average posters, because more often than not, are hanging out on diyaudio. Also members in different time zones, like yourself, allows for blanket police coverage.
You guy are doing a great job of keeping things boring.
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Old 11th January 2019, 01:56 PM   #736
scott wurcer is online now scott wurcer  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tapestryofsound View Post
Sorry to say I still cannot understand a single word of what you write - alas, I will never be a guru. ToS
I think syn08 is simply alluding to the fact that the medical and science community makes measurements far more sensitive than anything involved with audio. There are frequently posted articles on how small the movements of hairs are in the ear but frankly LIGO, for instance, is orders of magnitude more sensitive.

And my apologies, I consider anyone coming into an established community and requesting accommodations as having an agenda. Nothing personal at all, discussing moderation should be offline. I have BTW left forums where the moderation allowed certain offensive behaviors that bothered me.
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Last edited by scott wurcer; 11th January 2019 at 02:09 PM.
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Old 11th January 2019, 02:57 PM   #737
KBK is offline KBK  Canada
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We have programming teams as no individual is always correct and perfect in the simplicity of their execution -at all times.

the complexity shows that people are alive, and that's a good thing. Perfection is a form of death, so be careful what you wish for.

"Some" is all you should be hoping for. Hand on the wheel - on the road of chaos.... is as good as it is ever going to get, and that's only if you are lucky.
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Old 11th January 2019, 03:37 PM   #738
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaffiMann
DF96, If I had the power to dish out some neat Quality Badges, you'd get one.
Thanks, but I would decline such an honour. I don't want people to believe what I say on the grounds that I am saying it. Sometimes I get things wrong.
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Old 11th January 2019, 03:43 PM   #739
Tubelab_com is online now Tubelab_com  United States
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Quote:
Yes. For some reason, in audio (and radio antennas), false information is often more popular and deemed more helpful than the truth.
Pseudo science, false information, and just plain BS exists anywhere that there is money to be made by selling or promoting such.

I think the worst examples existed in the automotive market especially in the 70's during the upturn in fuel prices....

There were all sorts of gadgets to improve fuel consumption or even the whole "run your car on water" over unity energy scheme, which is still making the rounds in different forms like "free electricity."

Quote:
Sorry to say I still cannot understand a single word of what you write - alas, I will never be a guru......I meant, what can be measured at a 30K system temperature, in terms of sensitivity......how they discriminate from noise and measure at LIGO.....
When noise FIGURE measurements become too imprecise for tiny numbers, we use noise TEMPERATURE measurements, referenced to absolute zero. At zero degrees Kelvin, all thermal noise ceases. 30K is a low noise system.

These numbers are typically seen in RF amplifiers, and systems. When I worked on 4GHz TV satellite receivers in the 1980's 100K was a good system.

LIGO is a large scale laboratory with deep space receiving antennas capable of "hearing" very weak signals, due to the system's low internal noise.

Parametric amplifiers are made by modulating the parameters of a semiconductor device by a large RF signal. The semiconductor was usually a tunnel diode or a varactor diode. These could amplify without using resistors or a DC power supply, thereby eliminating two common noise sources. Common in the 70's and 80's, but today usually seen only in extremely high frequency RF systems.

We look at the whole "system" for it's ability to detect, monitor, and make some sense out of low level signals. The same is true of our audio "systems" and that system extends from the source to the listener's brain. I know that my hearing has a much worse S/N ratio than most due to severe tinnitus, so my audio system will never be as good as the same system with a different listener in the chair.

I understood most of what he wrote. I did have to look up "LIGO." Does that make me a "guru?" Maybe if this was an RF design forum, I could be considered an "expert" by certainly not a "guru."

In this forum I am well known for squeezing the most out of tubes. I am "knowledgable" in the solid state world, but a flat rookie in the DSP and speaker building world. NOBODY is an expert in all aspects of the Audio world....it's too broad and changes too fast.
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Old 11th January 2019, 03:51 PM   #740
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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quality of new threads going downhill
Quote:
Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
In most cases I respect his wishes and keep away from such threads, but sometimes the temptation to join in overwhelms me - especially when complete nonsense is being taught to newbies as though it were established fact. Of course, such thread starters never seem to feel obliged to stay away from engineering-based discussions in other threads.
Therein lies the root of the problem. If it were only you, it wouldn't be a problem. But it's a widespread behavior.

Even if we had distinct Objective and Subjective sections of the forums, people with the opposing philosophies would still jump in to tell everyone how wrong they are.

Maybe that's just the nature of online discussion.
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