People don't know what they want, particularly if they are new. Having a series of "good places to start" projects would be extremely helpful.
YouTube needs to be used to our advantage, period. That's the new world, like it or not.
Kits are a huge deal to getting people in the door. We're moving towards more of that, things are just slow as this is primarily all volunteer.
As I said in my video, the real trick is engagement. A very good friend of mine talks about how this forum is an INCREDIBLY daunting place for a noob to even ask the first question. Those people need to be made welcome, and have the question answered in a way they will understand. Us old salts tend to be a little short with the very basic questions, I'm certainly guilty of that from time to time.
Believe me, the new age of diyAudio is coming, as the headphone market is bringing more people into audio. Let's ride the wave.
YouTube needs to be used to our advantage, period. That's the new world, like it or not.
Kits are a huge deal to getting people in the door. We're moving towards more of that, things are just slow as this is primarily all volunteer.
As I said in my video, the real trick is engagement. A very good friend of mine talks about how this forum is an INCREDIBLY daunting place for a noob to even ask the first question. Those people need to be made welcome, and have the question answered in a way they will understand. Us old salts tend to be a little short with the very basic questions, I'm certainly guilty of that from time to time.
Believe me, the new age of diyAudio is coming, as the headphone market is bringing more people into audio. Let's ride the wave.
True in most cases, from what I read here.
I do run across threads started by beginners who do not want to get involved in electronics as a hobby, and state it plainly:"I'm only going to build one amp in my lifetime and I want it to be the ultimate....".
In the guitar amp world, this would be the guy who wants to build a channel-switching high power dumble clone as the first and only project.
There are usually folks here who are willing to help those people.
I'm more interested in people who will be happy to build something that 'works' and sounds 'OK' as a first project - like the Champ amp builder in the guitar world.
'Full' kits are a good draw for people who don't have good shop tools available (home shop or 'Maker Place'), since the chassis and casework is so important for safety and appearance. Look at the 'hit status' of the ACA...though I guess not all of those were sold as kits with casework?
I have not found that at all. Plenty of people email me and ask quite sensible questions and many of them are very new to the hobby. Some people see it as an opportunity to show-off. I am lucky to be able to answer most of their questions and help them on their way and I get a lot of satisfaction from that.
I've seen too many examples on this forum where people come on, ask some questions, and the know-it-all's with probably years of experience (maybe not) belittle them. So, no I don't agree with your assessment that people feel they need to be spoon-fed. They just need a bit of courtesy. It might be that with a PhD in physics you find electronics easy - many folk don't - its a daunting subject that covers a huge field.
Separately, the worst example of 'noob bashing' I ever saw was on the old Keil Forum (8 bit Microcontroller compiler IDE supplier). Anyone new to C programming with what sounded like a silly question (typical when you are at the bottom of the learning curve) got pilloried and derided by so called experts. Clearly that forum needed some serious moderation.
I hope we never end up like that here.
Last edited:
Most of the belittling comes from people with years of experience yet little actual knowledge. I am well aware that electronics is daunting; part of my concern is that some new folk don't know that and won't accept it so they expect to be world experts within three weeks of admitting that they have never heard of Ohm's Law. I exaggerate, but not by much. I am always courteous to people who want to learn.
It is a problem, and the forum software doesn't help much. That could be done on a software like this, but would require far too much self discipline on the part of the forum members. (The bulk of a moderators job is janitorial, fixing what's been done wrong).
We are hopeful that when the forum moves over to Xenforo software we will be able to make finding things much easier because the tools will be better. Tagging will be a huge help, allowing better and more precise searches and probably custom categories. It will be interesting to see how the new software changes the forum.
There has been much talk over the years of a beginer's project section, but as others mentioned - how do you choose?
I got interested in High-Fi and DIY in my teens, and was seriously into by my mid 20s. Sure, I was one of the rare young ones at the time. The "old men" back then kept telling me that DIY audio was dying out, no young people were interested. Here we are 40 years later and it's still the same. DIY seems to be dying a very, very slow death.
OK, a lurker here.
I cannot answer to the main subject of this thread, the quality of threads going downhill or not, since I'm quite new to the forum (2 years) and still a newbie in electronics. But I will tell you some things.
True that, period. First questions were hard to make. Even with the self conscience that I lack lots of knowledge, and admiting that publicly on the threads I started, asking is a big step. It required lots of reading before doing that step (still try to prepare the questions a lot nowadays). But probably main cause was that I did not know what I "wanted". That's changed a lot lately, for me. But I always had very warm replies, and I feel so grateful for that. All of the replies have been welcoming, no matter how "low level" the questions were. If that is the rule or the exception, I don't know, but it's been like that to me. And that made me want to learn more, ask more questions, etc.
I love it when a thread has the build process pictures. Or even just the final project pictures. Or the gerbers. Or the formulas to get to a value. What I'd love to see more often is design decisions. Many stuff is given for granted for veterans here, but probably a little more background info on design decisions would help newbies see a bigger picture and join some missing points.
Finally, I've changed my project since I was envisioning 2 years ago. It has evolved, even if still in my mind for now. I take it as a step by step learning process. Learn one thing, get one more question, because the more you know, the more questions arise. And that process makes you rethink on your approach. And that's good. Looking back to questions and knowledge from 2 years ago, I can see the evolution. Even if my level is still pretty low, I can feel like I know a lot more now. My project changed shape many times and I'm finally at a point I know what I want now is really nice and I think I have the tools to make it happen. And all this is due to people interacting in this forum.
So, THANK YOU.
I cannot answer to the main subject of this thread, the quality of threads going downhill or not, since I'm quite new to the forum (2 years) and still a newbie in electronics. But I will tell you some things.
True that, period. First questions were hard to make. Even with the self conscience that I lack lots of knowledge, and admiting that publicly on the threads I started, asking is a big step. It required lots of reading before doing that step (still try to prepare the questions a lot nowadays). But probably main cause was that I did not know what I "wanted". That's changed a lot lately, for me. But I always had very warm replies, and I feel so grateful for that. All of the replies have been welcoming, no matter how "low level" the questions were. If that is the rule or the exception, I don't know, but it's been like that to me. And that made me want to learn more, ask more questions, etc.
Yes, because there's also a typical problem of information overload and bias. Too much info can kill you if you cannot discern what is good or bad. That's a negative thing that can affect people doing their first steps.
I love it when a thread has the build process pictures. Or even just the final project pictures. Or the gerbers. Or the formulas to get to a value. What I'd love to see more often is design decisions. Many stuff is given for granted for veterans here, but probably a little more background info on design decisions would help newbies see a bigger picture and join some missing points.
Finally, I've changed my project since I was envisioning 2 years ago. It has evolved, even if still in my mind for now. I take it as a step by step learning process. Learn one thing, get one more question, because the more you know, the more questions arise. And that process makes you rethink on your approach. And that's good. Looking back to questions and knowledge from 2 years ago, I can see the evolution. Even if my level is still pretty low, I can feel like I know a lot more now. My project changed shape many times and I'm finally at a point I know what I want now is really nice and I think I have the tools to make it happen. And all this is due to people interacting in this forum.
So, THANK YOU.
I appreciate these ideas that have been suggested, but I think there are some issues that derail them:
1) The newbies that are highly visibly in wanting advice on projects to start typically are the ones that have this mindset of "fresh" information and won't simply follow a blog or wiki, even if on this forum, about which are the best starter projects. I remember there was someone refusing to progress building interconnects because the thread was 9 years old. Interconnects!
2) The problem of super long threads with important information such as the current design buried deep within them is pervasive. Even if you did make the OP allowed to edit the first post to update information, many wouldn't bother. This is a difficult fix in my mind with no obvious solution.
1) The newbies that are highly visibly in wanting advice on projects to start typically are the ones that have this mindset of "fresh" information and won't simply follow a blog or wiki, even if on this forum, about which are the best starter projects. I remember there was someone refusing to progress building interconnects because the thread was 9 years old. Interconnects!
2) The problem of super long threads with important information such as the current design buried deep within them is pervasive. Even if you did make the OP allowed to edit the first post to update information, many wouldn't bother. This is a difficult fix in my mind with no obvious solution.
DIY has certainly changed over the years with anything; pick a topic, and it’s different than before.
I recall that the couple of times I had brought up an admittedly stupid problem perhaps, and requesting some assistance, being provided with unkind responses and very little useable information. Reminded me of one of those viscous knitting circles where the women were snarky, releasing their lifetime of agony upon each other. This provides anyone searching in the future no useful information, and is basically a waste of bandwidth here on the forum.
It is a hobby, for me anyways, based on research, and personal observations. I take most of what I read with a grain of salt until a large consensus has been realized, or proven with observations myself. I try to just ignore everything that is noise from any relevant valid information. I think this is the same with anything for the most part, nothing too special or out of the ordinary here.
I recall that the couple of times I had brought up an admittedly stupid problem perhaps, and requesting some assistance, being provided with unkind responses and very little useable information. Reminded me of one of those viscous knitting circles where the women were snarky, releasing their lifetime of agony upon each other. This provides anyone searching in the future no useful information, and is basically a waste of bandwidth here on the forum.
It is a hobby, for me anyways, based on research, and personal observations. I take most of what I read with a grain of salt until a large consensus has been realized, or proven with observations myself. I try to just ignore everything that is noise from any relevant valid information. I think this is the same with anything for the most part, nothing too special or out of the ordinary here.
It dates back to the "clackers" who were women that knitted during public executions - there were enough of them that the clacking of the needles was noticeable - same here
Last edited:
OTOH, there are some "experts" that, based on anything but technical criteria, are propagating a large amount of BS that n00bs are sometimes willing to accept, based strictly on the source rather than by technical merit (which they don't have yet the skill set to evaluate). This type of advice can be summarized, in a nutshell, as the old adagio "trust your ears".
Unfortunately, that's all some beginners want to hear, and straight from a "guru". Some believe this makes them instant experts, since the other path (education/learning, including from mistakes), is long and not that rewarding, to start with. Audio is unfortunately the ideal field for such fake expertise; not much room for such in programming or astronomy, for that matter.
I agree the technical quality of this forum went down significantly. 8 years after I left, there's less technical content than ever. The only leisure type activity happens in the Lounge, which has indeed, occasionally, a certain entertaining value. Other than that, I can barely find a damn thing worth jumping in and commenting. Root cause could be less interest driven by the advent of opaque digital technology (how many know the DAC model in the latest Huawei smart phone, and it's performance metrics, nonetheless it sound darn good to me) or the retirement of an almost entire generation of EEs with an audio hobby. Or both.
The first post edit was put in place several years back. People do use it, you'll see it in many of the better threads.
The fix may lie in a better interface. The simple ability to tag content should go a long way. Being able to quickly find build threads, schematics, formulas and such will be a major help.
The idea of a FAQ has been discussed, but there has been some opposition to the idea because so much information is available outside the forum.
Top Hits list of Threads
If you would like to know what people are looking at on diyAudio, here is alist of top hits by views. Note: No Lounge threads are included and the numbers are from Dec 18 2018
__Views________Section________Thread
3,773,025 | Solid State |100W Ultimate Fidelity Amplifier
3,551,354 | Multi-Way | Beyond the Ariel
3,507,018 | Tubes/Valves | Photo Gallery
2,952,603 | Digital Source | Marantz CD63 & CD67 mods list
2,822,412 | Full Range | Full Range Speaker Photo Gallery
2,712,614 | Solid State | John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier
2,679,696 | PC Based| Moode Audio Player for Raspberry Pi
2,556,865 | Solid State | Post your Solid State pics here.
2,503,391 | Class D | TPA3116D2 Amp
2,443,122 | Multi-Way | System Pictures & Description
2,432,411 | Class D | Hypex Ncore
2,215,420 | Analogue Source | Simplistic NJFET RIAA
2,212,471 | Digital Line Level | Building the ultimate NOS DAC using TDA1541A
2,080,369 | Solid State | Krell KSA 50 pcb
2,077,526 | Chip Amps Chip Amp Photo Gallery
2,069,341 | Digital Source | Finally, an affordable CD Transport: the Shigaclone story
2,018,731 | Pass Labs | Pictures of your diy Pass amplifier
2,009,447 | Multi-Way | Ultimate Open Baffle Gallery
2,007,199 | Class D | ucd 25 watts to 1200 watts using 2 mosfets
1,792,203 | Class D | The Boominator - another stab at the ultimate party machine
1,740,882 | Pass Labs | The Pass Pub: The High-End Off Topic Thread
1,644,258 | Power Supplies | The simplistic Salas low voltage shunt regulator
1,609,506 | Solid State | 900W H-class PA Amp with Limiter
1,500,729 | Solid State | 500W PA amplifier with Limiter
1,492,078 | Solid State | Slewmaster - CFA vs. VFA "Rumble"
1,487,147 | Solid State | JLH 10 Watt class A amplifier
1,475,477 | Analog Source | MPP
1,407,598 | Pass Labs | Amp Camp Amp - ACA
1,405,873 | Music | The 15 Song Album collection:
1,405,708 | Analogue Line Level | Lightspeed Attenuator a new passive preamp
1,364,345 | Solid State |Destroyer x Amplifier...Dx amp...my amplifier
1,359,523 | Multi-Way | | Geddes on Waveguides
1,346,261 | Chip Amps | My "audiophile" LM3886 approach
1,248,051 | Digital Line Level | A NOS 192/24 DAC with the PCM1794 (and WaveIO USB input)
1,195,272 | Class D | Class D Amp Photo Gallery
1,190,393 | Solid State| Explendid amplifier designed by Michael Bittner, our MikeB
1,178,436 | Digital Source | Playstation as CD-player
1,163,689 | Subwoofers | Collaborative Tapped horn project
1,159,299 | Full Range | Terry Cain's BIB -why does it work and does anyone have those Fostex Craft Handbooks?
1,156,232 | Parts | I don't believe cables make a difference, any input?
1,117,494 | Headphone systems | The Objective2 (O2) Headphone Amp DIY Project
1,098,646 | Digital Line Level | Experience with this DIY DAC ?
1,072,609 | Digital Line Level | Behringer DCX2496 digital X-over
If you would like to know what people are looking at on diyAudio, here is alist of top hits by views. Note: No Lounge threads are included and the numbers are from Dec 18 2018
__Views________Section________Thread
3,773,025 | Solid State |100W Ultimate Fidelity Amplifier
3,551,354 | Multi-Way | Beyond the Ariel
3,507,018 | Tubes/Valves | Photo Gallery
2,952,603 | Digital Source | Marantz CD63 & CD67 mods list
2,822,412 | Full Range | Full Range Speaker Photo Gallery
2,712,614 | Solid State | John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier
2,679,696 | PC Based| Moode Audio Player for Raspberry Pi
2,556,865 | Solid State | Post your Solid State pics here.
2,503,391 | Class D | TPA3116D2 Amp
2,443,122 | Multi-Way | System Pictures & Description
2,432,411 | Class D | Hypex Ncore
2,215,420 | Analogue Source | Simplistic NJFET RIAA
2,212,471 | Digital Line Level | Building the ultimate NOS DAC using TDA1541A
2,080,369 | Solid State | Krell KSA 50 pcb
2,077,526 | Chip Amps Chip Amp Photo Gallery
2,069,341 | Digital Source | Finally, an affordable CD Transport: the Shigaclone story
2,018,731 | Pass Labs | Pictures of your diy Pass amplifier
2,009,447 | Multi-Way | Ultimate Open Baffle Gallery
2,007,199 | Class D | ucd 25 watts to 1200 watts using 2 mosfets
1,792,203 | Class D | The Boominator - another stab at the ultimate party machine
1,740,882 | Pass Labs | The Pass Pub: The High-End Off Topic Thread
1,644,258 | Power Supplies | The simplistic Salas low voltage shunt regulator
1,609,506 | Solid State | 900W H-class PA Amp with Limiter
1,500,729 | Solid State | 500W PA amplifier with Limiter
1,492,078 | Solid State | Slewmaster - CFA vs. VFA "Rumble"
1,487,147 | Solid State | JLH 10 Watt class A amplifier
1,475,477 | Analog Source | MPP
1,407,598 | Pass Labs | Amp Camp Amp - ACA
1,405,873 | Music | The 15 Song Album collection:
1,405,708 | Analogue Line Level | Lightspeed Attenuator a new passive preamp
1,364,345 | Solid State |Destroyer x Amplifier...Dx amp...my amplifier
1,359,523 | Multi-Way | | Geddes on Waveguides
1,346,261 | Chip Amps | My "audiophile" LM3886 approach
1,248,051 | Digital Line Level | A NOS 192/24 DAC with the PCM1794 (and WaveIO USB input)
1,195,272 | Class D | Class D Amp Photo Gallery
1,190,393 | Solid State| Explendid amplifier designed by Michael Bittner, our MikeB
1,178,436 | Digital Source | Playstation as CD-player
1,163,689 | Subwoofers | Collaborative Tapped horn project
1,159,299 | Full Range | Terry Cain's BIB -why does it work and does anyone have those Fostex Craft Handbooks?
1,156,232 | Parts | I don't believe cables make a difference, any input?
1,117,494 | Headphone systems | The Objective2 (O2) Headphone Amp DIY Project
1,098,646 | Digital Line Level | Experience with this DIY DAC ?
1,072,609 | Digital Line Level | Behringer DCX2496 digital X-over
Pano,
Those look like cumulative views perhaps over many years. Do you have a delta of what threads increased the most over, say, the past 6 months?
Hahahahahah! I had a good laugh reading this!
Viscous, snarky ladies...
Vicious is one thing, but viscous and snarky was a much much much better description
Says it all really!
"They sat there, in their little knitting circle, every single one of them filled to the brim with scorn and resentment after a lifetime of nagging at each other,. They where a truly viscous and snarky bunch, like well aged giant lumps of snot, darker and dried on the outside, and a toxic gooey greenish glow inside."
- Status
- Not open for further replies.